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Latin Mass tonight at St. Mark July 22, 2013

Posted by Tantumblogo in Basics, Dallas Diocese, foolishness, General Catholic, Latin Mass, North Deanery, priests, sadness.
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There will be Novus Ordo Latin Mass tonight at St. Mark in Plano at 7pm.  I plan to do a post about the desire some have expressed for Latin Mass in the north deanery of the Diocese (which would include Plano, Allen McKinney, etc). Suffice it to say, attendance at the Novus Ordo Latin Mass at St. Mark has not been very high.  It has been sufficiently low that its future is in doubt.  Even though a Novus Ordo Mass may not be what you prefer, still, should this Mass indicate a high level of interest, it will make it more likely that similar Masses would be made available in the future.  Conversely, continued low attendance, and possible cancellation, would probably indicate to Bishop Farrell, Msgr. Bradley, and other responsible parties that there is insufficient interest to make the effort to offer Latin Mass.

I’m not trying to pressure anyone, I’m simply laying out the facts.  If you desire more Latin Mass in the area, there is a great opportunity to demonstrate that interest tonight, or on any coming Monday night.

 

Comments

1. Woody - July 23, 2013

How many attended tonight?

tantamergo - July 23, 2013

The same – I think 33.

Woody - July 23, 2013

And that is a very good number when you consider that the Mass is held on a Monday night. If 33 people came to the bishop and demanded a TLM in an area of the diocese, the bishop would be hard pressed to say no. Now, the current Dallas bishop would say no to these 33 and so would Fr. Cliff Smith. But, a TLM should be held somewhere where it is wanted so it should not be held at St. Marks. Thus again the question, which I know can’t be answered here since the walls have ears. Is there a pastor in the north Dallas area that keeps his desire to have a TLM at his parish a secret from the bishop? Without naming names does anyone know of such a priest?

tantamergo - July 23, 2013

The answer is yes, and there will be more, soon.

I can’t say much. But it’s may be much closer than we think. Mater Dei has not gone unobserved. And it is known there is much more desire for TLM than even what is shown by Mater Dei attendance figures.

2. Steve - July 23, 2013

I assisted several times at the Monday night Latin Mass but haven’t returned since late last year. Unless the situation has changed dramatically, I recall that there were about 80 worshipers at the first such Mass that I had attended.

My final two or three times in attendance at the Monday night Latin Mass, I recall only about 30 or so worshipers.

Expect for the initial Masses in question, I believe that Mass attendance has always been low at St. Mark’s Latin Mass. The early nonsense…I believe that you know what I mean…at St. Mark’s Latin Mass drove away a great many people.

If Mass attendance is vital to the continuation of the Mass, Bishop Farrell could have canceled the Latin Mass long ago.

Among the Faithful, there is plenty of interest in the Latin Mass among Catholics at St. Mark’s (and in the Plano, Richardson and even McKinney areas) to support a regular Latin Mass (Traditional Roman Mass or Latin Novus Ordo) at St. Mark’s (or at any Plano/Richardson/Allen/McKinney parish).

If the diocese wishes to use low attendance at St. Mark’s “experimental” Novus Ordo Latin Mass as their excuse to end said Mass, then so be it.

But aside from the nonsense that had taken place at the early St. Mark’s Latin Mass, the main reason for the low Mass attendance at the Mass in question is that the “experimental” Latin Mass is simply not a true part of the parish’s regular spiritual life.

The majority of Traditional Catholics prefer the Traditional Roman Mass to Latin Novus Ordo Masses.

But based upon conversation over the years that I have had in our diocese with my brothers and sisters in the Faith who long for at least some semblance of Holy Tradition, I don’t have any doubt that even a regular Novus Ordo Latin that is part of normal parish life would receive solid support.

That said, at this or that parish, the Dallas Diocese should simply give us that which Holy Mother Church has declared is our right as Latin Church Catholics:

That is, please let us go each Sunday to our parish to worship God via the Traditional Roman Mass.

Pax.

Woody - July 23, 2013

To obtain what you request, we would need a new bishop who has no animosity towards the TLM. Our “rights” as Roman Catholics only go as far as our bishop say they go. Remember, each one is his own pope. And Rome is a long, long way from Dallas Texas. Obedience my……foot. And then again, two can play at any game. I play the game with my wallet and where my money goes.

3. Steve - July 23, 2013

We have to pray that our bishop (and Latin Church bishops elsewhere) and our priests will open their hearts and minds to Holy Mother Church’s teachings in regard to Summorum Pontificum.

What amazes me is that so many current Latin Church bishops, including our bishop, had grown up with the Traditional Roman Mass.

Said Mass was the Mass of their youth. I would think that their love of God and His Church was formed particularly during their youth via the Traditional Roman Mass.

That is why the animosity that many Latin Church bishops have for the Traditional Roman Mass has puzzled me.

At any rate, a good beginning for Latin Church bishops (and priests) would be to obey Vatican II’s teachings in regard to Latin and Gregorian Chant.

In short, at Novus Ordo Masses, pray in Latin the parts of the Oridinary of the Mass that pertain to the Faithful…and elevate Gregorian Chant to its proper elevated status during Mass.

Bishops and priests demand that Traditionalists “accept and obey” Vatican II. Our Churchmen should do the same.

Woody - July 23, 2013

Yes, they demand you and I obey but when it comes to them, well obedience becomes complicated. And they even take a vow of obedience!

4. Jtal - July 23, 2013

To pretend that attendance at he Monday night St. Mark’s mass is indicative of the interest in a TLM is absurd and the bishop knows it.

IMHO the bishop picked the most inconvenient time possible so he could point to slight attendance as evidence that “we” don’t “need” a diocesan TLM.

What a joke – real families have homework, practice, rehearsals, whatever on week nights so of course there will be sparse attendance by families at weeknight (non-obligation) masses.

I don’t suppose the bishop wishes to consider the number of Planoites who make the trek to Irving every Sunday morning.

tantamergo - July 23, 2013

I’m assuming, in your charity, you did not mean to imply our family is not “real.”

Yes, it is an inconvenient time. But it is the time we have, and it is still better than nothing, and better than many dioceses.

Jtal - July 23, 2013

Not “Real” but “Complex”, as in a + bi.

Seriously, of course I meant no such implication. You’re already all-in – I’m thinking of more “typical” St. Marks families that may be interested in attending a Sunday Latin or some-Latin mass but find it difficult to go out on week nights.

My central point is that if his excellency wishes to use an experimental Latin NO mass to gauge interest in a Sunday TLM mass, it should be held on a Sunday when it meets the obligation AND families are more free to attend.

tantamergo - July 23, 2013

I don’t think Bishop Farrell or anyone else looks at the St. Mark Latin Mass with regard to how a Sunday TLM would be received. I think Mater Dei provides all the evidence needed in that regard. But I do know for a fact there was going to be another NO Latin Mass in the diocese, until attendance at St. Mark plummeted over the incident with the Blessed Sacrament. Any further NO Latin Masses – on a weekday, at least – are on hiatus unless and until St. Mark picks up. And without a strong showing on a week day, there is no chance for a Sunday Mass.

Yes, it’s a perfect Catch 22. Have the Mass on a bad night, so few will attend, and thus the easy excuse never to have Sunday Latin Mass, because it’s just not well enough supported.

Look, I’ve blogged on this before. This Mass has been around for over 2 years. I have certainly complained about the many factors that have seemingly doomed this Monday Mass – bad time, absolutely no promotion (it’s not even listed in the bulletin with the other regular Masses!), some early hostility that killed much of the initial interest (we had 100-150 people the first few weeks), etc. But I don’t think complaining is going to do much good. It hasn’t, yet. So, I’m trying to posit other steps that could be taken to help make TLM and even NO Latin more widely available.

5. Steve - July 24, 2013

Tantamergo, in regard to the following questions: “Is there a pastor in the north Dallas area that keeps his desire to have a TLM at his parish a secret from the bishop? Without naming names does anyone know of such a priest?”

You replied: “The answer is yes, and there will be more, soon. I can’t say much. But it’s may be much closer than we think. Mater Dei has not gone unobserved. And it is known there is much more desire for TLM than even what is shown by Mater Dei attendance figures.”

In regard to Novus Ordo Latin Masses, you stated the following:

“But I do know for a fact there was going to be another NO Latin Mass in the diocese, until attendance at St. Mark plummeted over the incident with the Blessed Sacrament. Any further NO Latin Masses – on a weekday, at least – are on hiatus unless and until St. Mark picks up. And without a strong showing on a week day, there is no chance for a Sunday Mass.”

Are you saying that additional TLMs in Dallas are on the way…but that Novus Ordo Latin Masses are out of the question unless attendance increases at the St. Mark’s Latin Mass?

If I have not misunderstood you, then as far as Traditionalists are concerend, our prayers have been answered as additional TLMs in Dallas are on the way.

tantamergo - July 24, 2013

Don’t read too much into it, and don’t confuse near term and far. Near term, if attendance at St. Mark were to ramp up and stay there, there is a very strong chance of another NO Latin. This would be in the months timeframe. TLM is probably more like years. I could be wrong, TLM could be coming sooner, but it’s not clear.

It’s not like I get a MS Project schedule with dates and all that. Some of this is reading the tea leaves, some is knowing what’s going on right now or forecast.

6. Steve - July 25, 2013

Thank you.


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