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The many problems with Orthodoxy August 21, 2013

Posted by Tantumblogo in Basics, Dallas Diocese, Ecumenism, episcopate, General Catholic, Latin Mass, sadness, scandals, secularism, Society.
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I only have about 5 minutes to throw this out, but a commenter asked what I thought of the Orthodox Churches.  Many Catholics are tempted at times to see the Orthodox as some haven of liturgical beauty, doctrinal orthodoxy, and sane administration.  Aside from the first one (and even that is very hit or miss), they are mostly wrong.

Doctrinally, the Orthodox are not as sound as they appear on the surface.  For instance, the Russian Orthodox Church approved barrier methods of contraception a couple of years ago.  This is a huge shift, and a sign that Orthodoxy could go the way the mainline protestants have. I doubt it, but it’s a bad sign nonetheless.  In addition, all the various Orthodox Churches believe or stress slightly different things, and are at war with each other more than they are with the Catholic Church.  The lack of a singular Authority in the form of the Pope really shows.

In terms of administration, there are many problems with the Orthodox as well, but they simply don’t get as much press in the West because there are so few Orthodox. But they have their liberal and conservative factions, they have careerists and Saints, just like the Church does.  They do not appear to have been penetrated by satanic/leftist influences to the extent the Church has, but that’s simply because the Orthodox aren’t viewed as the threat the Church is – or used to be, before the penetrations.  They are not a threat because they are so divided, as I said, as much or more at each other’s throats than they are united in their opposition to the Cathoilc Church.  Each Orthodox Church is dominated to varying degrees by nationalism, so that you have Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc., all claiming to be the “true” Orthodox Church.

Even liturgically, especially here in the US, you can find nuttiness/liberalism. You can find abuses of the Mass. You can find less than reverent liturgies.  You probably won’t see much like you see on the videos of Patriarch Kirill in Moscow offering the most solemn of liturgies.  You might find something better than your local parish church, but the answer to that is not to go Orthodox, but to find a good Traditional Latin Mass near  you.

There are other problems, but I haven’t time to get into them.

The answer, in sum, is not to leave. It’s to remain Catholic, and search for those parishes that are holy, reverent, devout, and traditional.  It could be you may have to go some ways to find such.  It’s even possible there isn’t anything within an hour’s drive.  If that’s the case, I’m sorry, but we have to offer it up.  We may all get to enjoy doing so soon if the persecution gets really going, anyways.

What an indictment of our Church, that pious souls are tempted to look elsewhere for sustenance!  Americanists, this is what you have wrought!  May God have mercy on your worldly souls!

Sorry so quick, I am out of time!  7 minutes!

One more critical, critical bit. You salvation is, to me, much less likely in an Orthodox Church, because of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus – Outside the Church there is No Salvation.  Some might argue the Orthodox still constitute a part of the Church, but schismatic.  That’s possible.  But anywhere outside visible union with the Bride of Christ and Her Vicar, the Pope, is much more problematic than being Catholic.

Comments

1. Warren Memlib - August 21, 2013

I’m not sure about nuttiness in the liturgies of the Eastern Orthodox churches, but I have recently found examples on the Internet of such in those of some Eastern Catholic churches–in imitation of abuses in their Western counterpart; for example:

Liturgical dance at Saint John Chrysostom Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church in Pittsburgh, PA
http://byztex.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-redemption-of-bathsheba-before.html

Liturgy facing the people with a female guitarist in the sanctuary and immodestly clad youth lining up for Communion/Confirmation at Saint George Melkite Greek Catholic Cathedral in Caracas, Venezuela
http://www.catedralsanjorge.org.ve/album/displayimage.php?album=15&pos=1
http://www.catedralsanjorge.org.ve/album/displayimage.php?album=15&pos=2

2. JLG - August 21, 2013

John 6:67,68

… And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

3. Raul De La Garza III (@raul_delagarza) - August 22, 2013

That’s pretty good for 7 minutes! I am usually still trying to think if what to write and that on a good day might take me 15 to 30 minutes.

4. Thomas - August 22, 2013

The main problem with the Eastern Orthodox churches from the perspective of a Roman Catholic who may be drawn to them for one reason or another is that they are not in full communion with the Holy See. Which is why I have never fully understood despite discussions with priests why it is that the Catholic Church allows Orthodox Christians to receive the Holy Eucharist.

Fr. Clifford Smith - August 22, 2013

The Church teaches that the Orthodox Church has valid Orders (unbroken connection to the Apostles) therefore their Sacraments are valid. Canon Law permits that if an Orthodox person does not have access to their own Church they may receive Sacraments in the Catholic Church.

tantamergo - August 22, 2013

Yep. I never considered saying otherwise. The Orthodox are considered part of the Church, in a sense, but schismatic, due to their rejection of the Primacy of the Pope. Much different from the separated Protestant sects, which, historically, were viewed as outside the Church and not possessed of valid apostolic succession.

Warren Memlib - August 22, 2013

The Orthodox have not officially reciprocated concerning Catholics receiving the Sacraments in their churches. They are very strict in their discipline of refusing Holy Communion to non-Orthodox. If an Orthodox priest does not recognize someone who is in line to receive Communion, he will bluntly ask, “Are you Orthodox?” and refuse to give Communion if the answer is not a definite “Yes.”

5. Michael P.Mc Crory. - August 22, 2013

If you are truly catholic you will find
” sustenance ” in ANY MASS.
To say otherwise is to show poor understanding of the Mass.
It is to get caught up in accidentals, missing it’s essentials.
It is tilting at windmills.

6. rosa - August 22, 2013

“Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Unam Sanctam 1302

7. Shari Ollis - August 22, 2013

Thank you sincerely for taking time to respond so quickly regarding Orthodox vs Catholic. It really is comforting to get a such a response – more comforting than from a recent response from a local priest whom served at a parish I attended for many years whom I have always liked. He basically told me the differences (No ” Pope”, married men can be ordained to priesthood, leavened bread for Eucharist) And ended with, “I hope this helps”. I thought for sure he would have had more to say to uplift the RCC as he has always seemed to be the more traditional priest. I even told him that I was not sure if I would/could ever convert to Orthodox but I have been so disturbed how we lack the reverence within the Church since VATII. ….no response. Maybe he meant well, but I found his response/lack of response even more disheartening. Where is the LOVE for the RCC? I did indeed feel the love of Christ’s Bride through your response and I immediately felt the grace (via tears of joy) of God upon me as I read your response. I thank God for this sweet music to my hears that I long to hear, that I long to see and feel in others, particularly more in our clergy. I think I shall add in my daily prayer -May the entire Body of Christ of the one true Church be able to see Her as forever ancient yet in ever new wine skin so to keep Her protected and to see Her as our real treasure while on earth. On a side note, I NEVER thought I would even attempt to look at another church as a possibility, but God works in mysterious ways to make us stronger in our RC faith. On a side note, after formerly working as an admin asst in the Bishops Office for 7 years, I have learned to realize how much WE ALL are so imperfect – even the holiest of holy – therefore I am forever grateful for the Church and Her Sacraments as my aid in keeping my eyes fixed on God, His Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Even through we participate as being the Body of Christ , we still fall short. I needed to be re-affirmed of all of this – thank you brother – the burden is not as heavy today.

8. RC - August 22, 2013

Funny this article should be written.
I actually received permission to receive communion from the Armenian Orthodox Church here in Dallas from the Armenian priest. It is, however, my understanding, that of all of the Orthodox Churches the Armenian Church is the closest with Rome and, that intercommunion is not at all uncommon. There were aparently provisions set up a couple of years ago (10+?) that allowed for Catholics to receive Communion at an Armenian Church and visa versa. Keep in mind, I am almost 100% certain that the Armenian Church is the only exception to allow for this. I don’t go out of disobediance to the Pope, I go bc the Latin Mass is way to far for me to drive to and I’m gettin increasingly tired of irreverent NO masses where I am, when Mass is a near occasion for sin, there is a problem, IMHO.

Sal - August 22, 2013

The one in Carrollton, or is there another?

RC - August 23, 2013

Yea the one in Carrollton, St. Sarkis.

9. Nicholas Nelson - August 24, 2013

I disagree. This article is quite inaccurate, and furthermore overlooks the OBVIOUS discontinuity of the traditions of the early church in the Roman church. Firstly, the Orthodox churches are not at each others throats. They do not differ theologically in ANY way, shape, or form. All Orthodox churches, except the schismatic Coptic churches, are united theologically into the Eastern Orthodox church or Orthodox-Catholic church. While the EOC has Russian, Greek, Antiochian, etc, administrations headed by their own Patriarch, they are all merely presiding bishops of simply different cultural developments and traditions of the same church, rather than differing theology. However, each patriarch still recognises the first among equals nature of the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople over ALL Orthodox bishops. He is the supreme primate, but he doesnt have exclusive power like a pope. This article seeks to ridicule the Orthodox church’s unity this way, yet it overlooks the fact that with every different pope in the Catholic church the position on certain doctrinal issues in the RCC differs. This is the problem with a central leader, as opposed to an administrative body of bishops with the Orthodox church, the Holy synod. Every pope can also consolidate wealth with this power and become a corrupt beast. Every pope is supposed to be infalible, but obviously this cannot be possible if one pope takes a conservative stance on abortion and says Its forbidden and the next takes a liberal stance and says Its pro-choice. The Catholic church lost Its fullness and doctrinal validity in the tradition of the early church long ago. When the bible was translated into Latin from New Testament Greek, the Catholic bible became littered with misconceptions and mis translations, though primarily attributed to the speed at which the competing monks worked, but also to the multi-facited Greek language compared to Latin. This would cause issues such as the words for Love in the bible. Latin has one word for love, Greek has five. And the Catholics based their doctrine off of this bible. Obviously it would be hard for the 4 out of 5 patriarchs of the early church to support the primacy of the bishop of Rome, when he uses a different liturgical language then the rest of Christendom. It is true that the pope in the Catholic church is not an original development. The bishop of Rome was only another bishop. And with the modernising of the church as of VatII, I fail to see the reverence in a latin mass where there is a drumset and guitar amp next to the table where the holy eucharist is to be celebrated. The Orthodox churchs liturgy is nearly identical to the original liturgy. If you open a book of St Justin Martyr, you will find it to be absolutely the same in the 3-4th century AD. We also didnt change the liturgical language from the language of the New Testament. The Orthodox church has no modernising trend that submits to the newest Christian worship fads. Things like this would make sure the Orthodox church has a more credible and traditional liturgical nature than Roman Catholicism, especially with the ever changing nature of the Catholic churches policies to submit to the latest worship trends. Im sure in 10-20 years there will be another Vatican council that will further the heresy of the RCC.


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