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Voris on the “new tone” September 26, 2013

Posted by Tantumblogo in Basics, episcopate, error, foolishness, General Catholic, Papa, sadness, scandals, secularism, self-serving, the return.
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Which is pretty much like the old tone, only now the very top of the Church is matching the near total silence of the vast majority of priests and prelates on subjects like contraception, fornication, pornography, ludicrous immodesty, abortion, sexual depravity, and the like.

As Michael Voris notes below, we have the assurance of Our Lady at Fatima, and that of a huge number of Doctors and Saints, that sins of impurity damn more souls than any other.  Dramatically lessening the Church’s focus on these mass sins will not make them go away.  In fact, it will only make them worse.  At some point, the Church will have to deal with these sins again, and the more that day is put off, the more difficult it will be to re-explain to souls why what they have been doing their whole lives has been so very very wrong, and dangerous to the state of their soul.

All that the “new tone” does, is allow those many priests and prelates who found their personal convictions at odds with what the Pope was saying to now have a slightly less guilt-ridden conscience.  And even this relief of conscience is, as it always has been, founded upon error, as the Pope has clearly condemned things like abortion, and the Doctrine of the Faith will remain unchanged, as it must.  In truth, much of what those reveling in the “new tone” are doing is just clinging to the distortions the media has made to the Pope’s own words – words which I wish were quite a bit different, perhaps, but which did nothing to affect Doctrine in the slightest way. But Paul VI also wanted a “new tone,” and the forces that tone unleashed shook the Church to her very core.

So, it’s a bit of a mixed bad – there is something to this “new tone..”…..there does seem to be one.  And that new tone will be seized on by the Church’s enemies, inside and out, who have desired for many decades now to reduce the Church to just another worldly institution, perhaps to ameliorate their own very sick consciences.

As I have said from the beginning, whatever the intent of these words, it is clear they will be used – and already have been by many immoral, Church-hating people and institutions – to try to shut up pro-lifers, those warning of the evils of contraception, and all those fighting all the other immoralities raging in this seething cauldron of wanton lust and unchecked desire we now call our “society.”  I have already read reports that faithful priests are being made to suffer at the hands of progressive colleagues or superiors for their adherence to orthodoxy, based on the popular understanding of the now infamous interview.  An understanding which may not be altogether fair (because there was a lot of very good guidance in the interview, but I have to caveat the caveat by saying, the controversial statements were NOT taken out of context and pretty much stand on their own), but which should have been easily foreseeable, if the Pope and Jesuits had not taken many deliberate steps to hide the interview from the normal Vatican review mechanisms.  This was an interview the Pope went out of his way to have represent his views, unadulterated and without review from the Curia.  He reviewed the Italian version himself and gave his approval of it.  These were not, then, accidental, or even off the cuff statements.  They were his most considered opinion, with a full review of what he said.

There is a new tone.  It is not a creation of the media, although they will certainly amplify it, twist it, and take advantage of it at every turn.

Given this reality, how will you deal with it?

 

Comments

1. Janet Baker - September 26, 2013

Good question. I’ll continue to go to the SSPX chapel, I’ll continue to sell TAN books at bus stops, continue the blog, the novel (I’m four chapters away from the finish line! it is germaine to the problem) , commenting everywhere I can on OP’sBlogs, not on Francis’ words, but on the Council, for his words come from the Council, they are the letter and soul of the Council. If I get the eye of higher-ups, I’ll have a sign: revise the poison texts of Vatican II!!

TG - September 27, 2013

Is your novel a fiction novel? I love Catholic novels. Sometimes I like to escape into the world of fiction but I want it to be authentic Catholism. It’s hard to find those.

steve ryan - September 27, 2013

Interested in Catholc Fiction? A divided Church? Traditionalists vs Modernists, The Blessed Mother? A Catholic Religious thriller? Brand new Catholic fiction that explores all these things and more.. Please check out “The Madonna Files” Great reviews

http://www.amazon.com/The-Madonna-Files-ebook/dp/B00EX6BC1S/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=1-1&qid=1380247785

2. Dismas - September 26, 2013

Yep. In baseball if you bat 950 you are a superstar. And Mr. Voris bats 950. Even superstars put on embarrassing performances sometimes, and Mr. Voris’ recent attempt to explain away the pope’s poorly-considered remarks is an example. IMHO, Mr. Voris would have been better off simply leaving that one alone. He had to stretch so hard you could almost feel the pain. Not to mention the fact that he referred to many of us as “stupid and un-Christlike” which may well be true, but perhaps not for the reasons he suggests.

3. Don - September 26, 2013

As I thought, the interview created havoc. Now Francis likely had no intention of doing so but the media used him and will do so again. Thus my [gentle] admonition to avoid this sort of free wheeling ‘talk’. Notice how the same media ignored his talk regarding abortion and end-of-life matters. He needs to avoid more of the ‘talks’ to reporters most of whom have ant-Catholic tendencies even if they are Catholic themselves.

Francis could send a strong message if he follows up on Cardinal Burke’s remarks regarding Nancy Pelosi and excommunicated her (though she has excommunicated herself long ago). She has been warned more than once.

tantamergo - September 26, 2013

She has been warned repeatedly, and by the Pope Emeritus himself while still reigning. If anyone in history has been warned of her errors, it is Nancy Pelosi!

TG - September 27, 2013

The media does seem to be treating the pope like they do the prez. I haven’t heard anything from non-Catholic friends about the abortion statement Pope Francis made or the excommunication of the priest.

4. Janet Baker - September 26, 2013

Don, is there any chance less than a snowball’s in hell that Francis would actually excommunicate Nancy Pelosi? Come on, Don. His remarks have not been twisted by the media, he means to say, Lay off these contentious issues!

I came back over to say that btw Francis is absolutely no different than Benedict on these issues. If you go read Cardinal Ratzinger’s rulings on homosexuality (still on Vatican website), you will find him to be the very author of the dignity movement. We Catholics were urged by Ratzinger to sponsor legislation to protect homosexuals from people’s disdain and rejection. And we did. Both Francis and Benedict buy the notion that homosexuality is inborn (well, it is, actually, in original sin-we’re all ‘gay’ with a couple of beers and a wee little conscience). He was furthermore a great supporter of Obama, and of Obama’s pick for US dignitary to the Vatican, a big ‘Catholic’ contributor to Obama;s campaign. It was hugs and kisses all round. Benedict called American democracy ‘vital’ and praised it to the skies. No, Francis and Benedict are the same, but Francis is just easier to understand. I am saying this because as one who stands outside abortion clinics frequently (but I pass out Catholic literature, unlike Priests for Life etc. et al), I don’t have to change a thing. We got no love from Benedict, either. He never once discussed excommunication for American politicians who support abortion. It’s what Vatican II was all about–let everybody do what they want, it’s a free country.

Don - September 27, 2013

Francis gave a rousing talk to the Italian gynocologists . Fully supporting life, of the unborn and the elderly (euthanasia) as well. The media virtually ignored it. No Church teaching has been changed. Charity, we all need to show it.

JMJ

5. Janet Baker - September 27, 2013

Hey, there is one more thing we could do besides fight the Council. Not only did the Council Fathers believe that homosexuality was inborn, they also believed there was a population explosion, and that the Church was taking an unscientific position regarding evolution. The latter has been discredited in many extensions, but most dramatically in the human DNA project. If you have not done so, get Signature in the Cell, Meyer, that uses math to establish the odds that life could have happened ‘spontaneously,’ based on the structure of the cell that we can now, thanks to technology, access, and that of course is the lynch pin of evolution. Regarding population, the fertility rate is taking Europe off the map–that there is no population explosion has given way to its opposite, yet no one, Catholics in particular, are fighting that battle of the com boxes. Read What to Expect When No One’s Expecting, Jonathan Last. We do not seem to be using these modern science lessons, which are all in our favor.

6. Elizabeth - September 27, 2013

Don, the media didn’t use the Pope. The Pope used the media. The Pope said exactly what he wanted to say, exactly what he believes, and he approved the document as written.

As for what am I going to do about it? I have no idea. If I was near an SSPX, FSSP, or Institute of Christ the King chapel, I’d be there. I’m not leaving the Church, but I don’t think I can take any more of the Pope. Is it a sin to pray for him to resign? Is it a sin to pray that the backfire happens really, really soon?

7. bona - September 27, 2013

Pope Francis: Do yourself and the Church a favor. THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK!

8. St. Benedict's Thistle - September 27, 2013

Pope Francis has caused me to look much more deeply into these matters. I always bought the neo-conservative line about the SSPX. No more.

Can anyone suggest a book that gives a true overview of what happened at Vatican II? I am a convert of almost six years and don’t have a good understanding of those times. My husband, who has been Catholic since birth, said he remembers people being utterly devastated at what happened after Vatican II.

As to how I will live, well, this situation has also put me on my knees to Jesus and our Lady. I always feel safe when I pray the Rosary, so I have been doing a lot more of that.

The way so many are twisting themselves in truly grotesque directions to excuse the erroneous words of Pope Francis, it almost seems as if they have made an idol of the papacy.

John - September 27, 2013

Well, a quick check at Amazon would probably provide you a short list of books you might try. As much as anything though, I recommend reading the documents of the Council themselves. You can find them in English on the Vatican web site (vatican.va).

Could you explain your remark about the neo-conservative line about the SSPX?

I wound up having to do my own research into them some years ago; I had crossed paths not with them, but with CMRI. I had a struggle of several months related to whether to take any of them seriously or not.
Ultimately, I felt compelled to stay away from CMRI and SSPX; they DID seem to offer Mass much more reverently, but they did NOT seem to offer unity with the Pope. If anything, they tended to equivocate and dodge around the Vatican I declaration about the Pope’s infallibility. They’d either declare the sede vacantist view–insisting that we hadn’t had a valid pope since about 1965–or else they declare the pope to be an apostate, needing to reconcile with THEM if he would be given credibility.

Neither position seems consistent to me with the overall Tradition (and traditions) of the Church.

Even though I greatly preferred the tendency of CMRI (or SSPX probably) to be more obvious about taking the faith seriously, I reluctantly returned to the usual diocesan Mass.
I didn’t feel I could competently over-rule the view of the entire Magisterium regarding the reigning Pope’s authority.

St. Benedict's Thistle - September 27, 2013

A quick check of Amazon is not what I was looking for. The suggestions from others below are quite helpful. I have read many of the documents of Vatican II. They are often ambiguous.

Regarding how neo-conservatives view the SSPX, I find they often recoil in fear, projecting their own ideas of the SSPX onto them. I was taught, by some wonderful and very devout Catholics, that the SSPX were to be avoided at all costs, that they were sedevacantists, and so on.

However, when I saw how Pope Benedict XVI treated them (with respect), I began to think a little differently of them and that leads me to want to learn more about what happened at Vatican II.

One thing I have learned about Catholics, is there is no end to the “making of books” and “itching of ears” and confusion. I would no more rely for Truth on one priest, or one pope, or one scholar than I would one book or one blog.

Thank you for your comment, and I will take it in the spirit with which it was given–to help educate me to the truth.

John - September 27, 2013

BTW, for what it’s worth, I read the entire 12,000 word article. I didn’t read anything in there that I could describe as erroneous. I WILL say that he gives us many challenges, but since Christ, Himself, told us that the world would hate us if we follow Him, I can’t say that I find the degree of challenge to be a surprise.

I’d say struggle to be faithful is rather more a foregone conclusion.

St. Benedict's Thistle - September 27, 2013

I read the entire interview also.

Elizabeth - September 27, 2013

I would recommend you read “The Second Vatican Council, An Unwritten Story”, by Professor Roberto deMattei. It’s fairly new and seems to have been widely praised. Here’s an Amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Second-Vatican-Council-Unwritten/dp/1622920023

Regarding the reply to you made by John, on the contrary, the SSPX officially and unofficially is completed devoted to the Pope. The slightest amount of research will tell you that. I don’t know about the other order he referenced (CMRI). No, I’m not a member of the SSPX so I have no agenda here, just the facts.

Thanks for your comment about always feeling safe when you pray the Rosary. Me too! God bless you.

tantamergo - September 27, 2013

That’s the book. Also, Iota Unum by Romano Amerio. Then, thre are Michael Davies three-volume history of the Council, especially regarding the changes to the Mass – Cranmer’s Godly Order, Pope John’s Council, and Pope Paul’s New Mass.

St. Benedict's Thistle - September 27, 2013

Thank you! Lots to read and ponder.

Elizabeth - September 27, 2013

Ditto to your “Iota Unum” recommendation. That book just blew me away.

And St. Benedict’s Thistle, I know you asked for book recommendations regarding VII, but I’ll mention this to you also. I highly recommend checking out the huge selection of awesome traditional sermons at http://www.audiosancto.org, if you’ve not already discovered that treasure trove. You may find some that are VII-related.

St. Benedict's Thistle - September 27, 2013

Found them a little while ago, have been busily recommending them to friends back east. I will look for the VII-related ones.

tantamergo - September 27, 2013

Sorry your comment was delayed, Elizabeth, it was the link. The more you comment, the less that should be a hassle.

St. Benedict's Thistle - September 27, 2013

Thank you! I will purchase this book.

Also, I don’t know about the other order he referenced, either, and I agree with your assessment of the SSPX.

Elizabeth - September 28, 2013

@St. Benedict’s Thistle: One more recommendation to “ditto” for you….Janet Baker recommends several books but the one that was extremely helpful to me (and very easy to read) was “Letter to Confused Catholics” by +Lefebvre. Highly recommended. I learned a lot from that book and it helped me early on to not be afraid of the SSPX, back when I knew next to nothing of them, other than what the mainstream conservative Catholic standard view was (which was to “stay away from that schismatic group, at all costs!”) Personally, I stay away from Cekada. To each his own.

Janet Baker - September 27, 2013

Please do not ignore either of these two lucid, simple books by Archbishop Lefebvre: Letter to Confused Catholics, and They Have Uncrowned Him. The archbishop was a missionary and the elected leader of an order of missionaries, which gives his perspective a practical cast that is like oxygen to an activist like myself, or to anyone who cares about the bottom line, which is of course, saving souls, saving our families, saving our communities. There is also the heavy hitters in the theology of the questions raised, like Iota Unum, and the chatty, gossipy even, The Rhine Flows into the Tiber, not to mention a really devastating work, that cuts to the heart of the issue of how the liturgy educates, Cekada’s Work of Human Hands analyzing the nature and extent of the changes of the collects in the novus ordo liturgy, which is one of the most damning of all. It literally exposes the whole dog and pony show for the humanistic self-worshipping protestant travesty that it is, and it’s there in the oraciones. But please start with the archbishop’s, which are the most balanced of all. They Have Uncrowned Him tells you what we must do next, on what we must focus, which is to cut the bs and work to re-crown Him, of course. Is it impossible? Doesn’t mean we can skip trying. And it’s not impossible anyway. WE”VE WON ON ALL THE WORLDLY IMPEDIMENTS. Secularism is played. All secularism’s tricks lay exposed, the cry of overpopulation, the cry of evolution. All exposed. But we don’t seem to know it, ourselves.

9. Serviam - September 27, 2013

Tithe solely to the Christ the King TLM oratory now. No more dividing my tithe between the NO parish I also attend.
The TLM parish will be the one still around in 10 years. Families with children wall to wall.
I just hope that when the time comes when the demographic chickens come home to roost, a TLM society will be able to buy the magnificent basilica where I have been going to Mass for 6 years now. The place is magnificently beautiful.

Oh, and temain in a state of grace. The hour is very late, I think.

10. Baseballmom - September 27, 2013

Well, you ask how we, the Faithful Catholics, will deal with all of this? With prayer and fasting… For our laity, hierarchy and Holy Father.

TG - September 27, 2013

Maybe a whole day of fasting and prayer for the pope. It seemed to work for Syria. I thought why doesn’t the Pope proclaim such a day to end evils like abortion, homo marriage, etc. Can you imagine that?

11. Joseph D'Hippolito - September 27, 2013

It’s time to face the fact: The Church is going to Hell, literally. At least, the Church leadership is. This was prophesied by the authors of the epistles, as well as in St. John’s Revelation. If you’re going to bring up “the gates of Hell will not prevail,” etc., please remember that Satan’s eventual destruction does not contradict his ability and desire to drag as many Christian leaders across all denominations into the mire.

Read Ezekiel 34. Read 1 Samuel 2:12-36. Read about the vision Pope Leo XIII had about Christ effectively giving Satan permission to destroy the Catholic Church!

God is not amused with those who misuse the authority He gave them.

12. Pat MCGroin - September 27, 2013

One “Vortex” is more efficacious for your soul than 99% of all the Bishops’ Conference press releases. Michael Voris knows more about Catholicism and the Church’s true mission than Cardinal “lights camera, action” Dolan.

tantamergo - September 27, 2013

Mark, these aren’t even funny, or clever. Lay off the sauce. It’s pretty obvious.

13. Vincent - September 27, 2013

There’s a great post on First Things.com, written by Brantly Millegan entitled, The Danger of Good Popes, 9/27/2013. Great article on the Papacy.

14. Ursula - September 27, 2013

EWTN always has good homilies. Father Jay Scott Newman from St. Mary’s in Greenville, SC uploads his Sunday homilies usually every Monday. His last homily is a keeper. It sheds insight on Our Holy Father and his statements.

Ursula - September 27, 2013
15. Raul De La Garza III (@raul_delagarza) - September 27, 2013

See Voris’ follow up episode. I’ll handle it by challenging it head on when and where ever possible. Like my 16 year old son offered last night, the Church is not to be on the defensive. Historically, this has rarely proven an effective strategy. No. We must be on the offensive. Recall that the gates of hell shall not prevail against Christ and His Church, not the other way around.

16. Don Schenk - September 27, 2013

BEGINING? Liberals have always twisted whatever Vatican II or a pope said, and used their twisted interpretation to prosecute faithful Catholics.

17. Susan Henderson - September 27, 2013

I hope Voris remembers Pope Francis is borrowing from the playbook of Emeritus Benedict XVI, when, in 2006, he made similar comments:

“I remember, when I used go to Germany in the 1980s and ’90s, that I was asked to give interviews and I always knew the questions in advance. They concerned the ordination of women, contraception, abortion and other such constantly recurring problems. If we let ourselves be drawn into these discussions, the Church is then identified with certain commandments or prohibitions; we give the impression that we are moralists with a few somewhat antiquated convictions, and not even a hint of the true greatness of the faith appears. I therefore consider it essential always to highlight the greatness of our faith – a commitment from which we must not allow such situations to divert us.” – Address of his Holiness Benedict XVI – Thursday, 9 November 2006.

It would be great to watch Michael Vois put the two statments together. If more people knew Benedict XVI made similar comments it would give them needed confidence, support and a nice comeback lines for progressives.


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