jump to navigation

Pope Francis considers it important to be criticized by traditional Catholics? November 18, 2013

Posted by Tantumblogo in awesomeness, Basics, blogfoolery, episcopate, General Catholic, Papa, Society, Tradition, true leadership, Virtue.

Rorate is reporting on a very surprising exchange that apparently occurred between Pope Francis himself, and an Italian Catholic who loves the great Tradition of the Church, wherein the Pope relates he feels it important to receive reminders or even criticism from the lay faithful?  I’m not sure how else to interpret this, although the comments were made to an ailing man, so perhaps there was some extra generosity there (I’m not trying to say there was, at all, simply that some might see it that way).

Important to note also is how this Italian critic has made plain his submission to the Pope, making his criticisms in a spirit of love and fidelity.  I think that aspect has been missed, or not stressed enough, in some of the concerns expressed around the Catholic blogosphere, including here.  Shame on me.  But given that hugely important caveat, it should be possible, outside of a completely unchecked ultramontane environment, to ask questions or express concerns without being told one is going to hell or is radically unfaithful.

If this is true – and it appears to be – it highlights what I referenced late last week, wherein I justified some of the criticism or questioning by stating that I believe some of the commentary reaches the Pope. The below would appear to confirm that.

“It bothers me that the news has been made public, and if it had been up to me, and Alessandro, [Alessandro Gnocchi, co-author with the man quoted here, Mario Palmaro of a piece highly critical of Pope Francis] to whom I revealed it immediately, it would never have been known. Also because the Pontiff obviously had no intention that his gesture be made public, as well as the contents of our conversation”.
“Pope Francis told me that he was very close to me, having learned of my health condition, of my grave illness, and I clearly noticed his deep empathy, the attention for a person as such, beyond ideas and opinions, while I live through a time of trial and suffering.”
“I was astonished, amazed, above all moved: for me, as a Catholic, that which I was experiencing was one of the most beautiful experiences in my life. But I felt the duty to remind the Pope that I, together wih Gnocchi, had expressed specific criticisms regarding his work, while I renewed my total fidelity [to him] as a son of the Church. The Pope almost did not let me finish the sentence, saying that he had understood that those criticisms had been made with love, and how important it had been for him to receive them.” [These words] “comforted me greatly.”
[The main duty for Palmaro and Gnocchi] “is that of being lucid and watchful regarding the contents of the Catholic doctrine, and, even in what we wrote in Il Foglio, fidelity to the Pope was never called into question.”……
………”Our intention is that of keeping steady on the path that we have always followed, answering before our conscience. This without ever faltering in fidelity to the Pope and the Church, but precisely because of this fidelity and love.”
A very interesting development.  I did not include in the above, but this news apparently broke through Vatican leaks (yikes, they’ve returned?!?  Funny how they almost always seem to cut against anything even remotely related to the traditional practice of the Faith), not through the interested parties. So, there is not an element of self-interest here.  It’s amazing how the Vatican leaks went totally away after Pope Emeritus Benedict abdicated, but now return if Pope Francis gives even a bit of succor to some traditional Catholics?   I’m just spit-balling here, but it does seem almost certain the leak of this private conversation came from the Vatican side.
It’s like there is a “war for Francis” going on.  I don’t really want to elaborate on that statement.  It’s just a sense I get. I’m certain the pressures of the Holy Father, God bless him, are unimaginable.


1. ProLIFEmommy - November 18, 2013

Considering how much our “humble” pontiff likes to criticize us “obsessive” “small-minded” “right-winger” “palagianists” … this is
relieving, hopeful, news… time will tell….

2. MMC - November 18, 2013

Holy emo batman! Pope Francis is kind of all over the place. Yes, prayers for him indeed. Although I think the “war for Francis” is going on within himself too. Prayers, prayers, prayers. God bless~

tantamergo - November 18, 2013

I tried 20 different ways to get into that dangling statement I left, but I couldn’t formulate it the way I wanted to.

Yes, Francis seems divided internally. So he swings one direction or the other depending on whose influence he falls under? “Loyal son of the Church” or “everyone has their own definition of good and evil?” Scalfari or Muller?

3. Dismas - November 18, 2013

Right. Me? It did not take me long to just give up trying to figure this guy out. All I do is pray for him.

4. TG - November 18, 2013

Tantamergo, your criticisms if you can call it that are lame compared to Mundabor. I’m having fun reading his blog. I think you say everything with charity. I read somewhere that it’s a modernist technique to say they are loyal to the church but yet say things that are confusing and open to different interpretation. From what I read, that’s how we got altar girls and communion in the hand.

5. Don - November 18, 2013

The Francis effect has Catholics returning to Mass and the sacraments in several countries. Which I noted in another thread here.

The criticism has in many places been over-the-top and totally lacking in Charity. This blog has not been that crazy for certain, but still too often worrying about some interview in which, for one instance, the author used no recording and took no notes.

As I have said, nothing has been changed to date under Francis. People need to calm down, pray, wait.

I trust the Holy Spirit, so should we all.



6. Brad - November 18, 2013

We love you, dearly, O Jesus, be so kindly to forgive our dictors who done a deal of corruption against the Traditional ones, grant through the merits of your Holy Wounds and by your Gentle Heart, as in great need of to heals the many deep wounds of the Holy Mother Church, as for grant favor of abundantly of blessings and mercy to all the traditional ones. Amen

7. Lorra - November 18, 2013

The Catholics that are returning will leave as soon as Francis sounds Catholic. The Catholics that are returning think Francis will be changing Divine and Natural Laws to suit their personal needs, or that they finally got a pope who is hip to their personal agenda for the Church.

And as many Catholics who are returning, there are that many who are leaving because of him.

I’m tired of being taken to task by the holier than thou bunch for criticizing the pope.

If you don’t want the pope criticized, don’t post critical articles.

And if it disturbs someone to read criticisms, I can suggest a good place for you to go where I can assure you no criticism of the pope, or any pope, will be tolerated. The only criticism, in fact, that is tolerated on this forum is of traditionals. Anything can and is said about them without fear of consequences.

TG - November 18, 2013

You’re right.

Hannah - November 19, 2013

Christ said the world would hate you. The world is falling all over Pope Francis. Why? Because he’s not preaching authentic Catholicism as it’s always been known. That’s why. It’s been replaced by sentimentality and ‘luv’, ‘I’m ok, you’re ok’ nonsense. That’s why the world loves him.

Still praying for him, of course. God help the Holy Father and us all.

Baseballmom - November 18, 2013

I hope many are not leaving because of him… If they are, then they are just as guilty as the modernists who leave…. We do not follow a man, we follow Jesus Christ and His Bride Who is the Church. We should respond as Peter did: “To whom shall we turn Oh Lord? You have the words of everlasting life!” To use the pontificate of Francis as an excuse to leave is just that, an excuse. It is wrong.

8. Pope’s sympathetic call to Catholic traditionalist | SILENT VOICE - November 20, 2013

[…] Pope Francis considers it important to be criticized by traditional Catholics? (veneremurcernui.wordpress.com) […]

9. Michael Matt – traddies behaving like imbeciles? | A Blog for Dallas Area Catholics - November 21, 2013

[…] recall Matt mentioning was the statement to the Italian traditional critics by Pope Francis – thanking them for their criticism.  The other positive acts Matt refers to have occurred in the past month.  Perhaps these are an […]

10. There is a place for charitable criticism of prelates….. | A Blog for Dallas Area Catholics - November 21, 2013

[…]  Here, via Tancred (who has been bringing the gold of late), is a commentary from Mario Palmaro (he who received the papal thanks for criticism from the traditional perspective) on the subject of papal criticism and bad behavior of trads.  He […]

Sorry comments are closed for this entry

%d bloggers like this: