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We are witnessing the Church at war with itself – UPDATED May 8, 2014

Posted by Tantumblogo in abdication of duty, Basics, disaster, episcopate, error, General Catholic, Papa, religious, scandals, secularism, self-serving, the return.

I am curious that I was sick the past two days, when so much disturbing news broke, of cardinals rebuking each other, of incredible proclamations being made in the name of the Pope, of stern words being directed at female religious so heretical they no longer merit the name Christian, let alone Catholic, and much else besides.  It has been stunning catching up on the events of the past two days. I am floored and flabbergasted.  I assume many of you are up to speed, but if not, a brief recap of events:

  • Cardinal  Muller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, criticizes, and, in a diplomatic sense, denounces, the arch-heretics at the Leadership Conference of Women’s Religious in the starkest terms yet seen.  The Cardinal basically claims that the LCWR ceased being Catholic long ago and must undertake a sudden and dramatic conversion or their organization may – or will – be squashed by the Holy See.
  • But then arch-modernist Cardinal Walter Kasper rebukes Cardinal Muller and publicly praises, at least by proxy, the LCWR.
  • Cardinal Kasper also gave a recent interview in which he claims the Church is “not against birth control at all.”
  • Then Cardinal Baldisseri, recently appointed by Pope Francis to serve as President of the Synod of Bishops (and given a red hat) and charged with leading the upcoming Extraordinary Synod on the Family claims that he favors seeing a “change” in the Dogma regarding bigamists – those manifestly persisting in a public state of grave and in many cases mortal sin – receiving the Blessed Sacrament.
  • Cardinal Kasper followed the above incredible statements with a disastrously dangerous quote, in which Kasper claims that Pope Francis told him that “50% of all marriages are not valid.”  Even if true, the pastoral implications of such a statement are mind-blowing, and likely to only encourage those in adulterous relationships to approach the Blessed Sacrament

So, on the one hand, we see what might be the beginning of a long and tragically overdue action on the part of the CDF against women religious who have utterly wrecked their orders and take a sick pride in their very public rejection of the Faith.  But that is more than offset by the destruction and diabolical disorientation wrought by others – people very close to the Pope and publicly praised by him!

We now have public statements from a significant number of prelates either raised to high positions by Pope Francis, or given strong and public support for their not just novel, but I would even say destructive (and I would say more than that, but will hold my peace for now) views.

And yet this is not all.  We also have a sermon given just a few days ago by Pope Francis, in which he, once again, puts completely at odds the Church as it existed and taught for centuries (or millenia), and his vision of what “true Christianity” is.  Or, at the very least, the Pope makes statements that are exceedingly easily interpreted as pitting the Church against Herself, Her past self.  And, I might add, this opposition is based on seemingly deeply entrenched false dichotomies held by many modernists:

We are not a ‘religion’ of ideas, of pure theology, beautiful things, of commandments.  No, we are a people who follow Jesus Christ and bear witness – who want to bear witness to Jesus Christ-  and sometimes this witness leads to laying down our lives.

The Church is fruitful and a mother when she witnesses to Jesus Christ. Instead , when the church closes in on itself , when it thinks of itself as a – so to speak – ‘school of religion’, with so many great ideas, with many beautiful temples, with many fine museums, with many beautiful things, but does not give witness, it becomes sterile.

It is absolutely incredible to me that anyone, let alone the Supreme Pontiff, would claim that there is some irreconcilable dichotomy between having Commandments, adhering to the Truth revealed by Scripture and Tradition, and giving witness!  This seems a pointed rebuke of all the theology of the great Saints Aquinas and Liguori, brilliant minds like Bossuet and Sanchez, and so many others besides.  I am aghast that any Catholic would say this, let alone the Holy Father!

There is nothing irreconcilable between BEAUTY and WITNESS!  Beauty is it’s own witness!  Is this not an incredibly reductive vision?

Aye, it is.  But it is also a vision completely in line with the thinking of those progressive modernists who seized control of the Church after Vatican II.  This is the whole “poor pilgrim church” so beloved of modernists.  And more.

Is it just me, or has there been any other pope in recent history who takes so many shots at the best, most committed Catholics, constantly telling them “you’re doing it all wrong.”  I have my problems with Opus Dei, but many are seeing in a different part of the sermon a severe rebuke of that organization, which constitutes the bulk of the orthodox (if not traditional) faithful in much of the world, especially the Spanish-speaking world.  The quote was something to the effect of: “Are numeraries of this sect fruitful because they do testify or remain sterile because they are not able to let the Holy Spirit lead them forward in a Christian vocation?”  This was in reference to the “numerary” of Opus Dei, lay people who take a vow of celibacy, something the Church has embraced, supported, and cherished since Her earliest days.

Likewise, doctrinal orthodoxy, and WITNESS to that orthodoxy, is something the Church has cherished since Her inception.  Augustine is a Doctor due to his theology!  So are all the other doctors!  And they gave WITNESS to that theology!

Enough.  Black masses, gnostic lesbians calling themselves “nuns,” a pope chastising the most faithful Catholics while giving a pass (if not an overt embrace) to those persisting in grave sin……is it just me, or is just about everything upside down right now?

 UPDATE: Much more here, at Rorate.  My admittedly amateur opinion is that Kasper is a manifest heretic, and quite close to being a formal one.  This particular quote just made me grind my teeth:

If you have a problem with the leadership of the women’s orders, then you have to have a discussion with them, you have to dialogue with them, an exchange of ideas,” he said. “Perhaps they have to change something. Perhaps also the Congregation (for the Doctrine of the Faith) has a little bit to change its mind. That’s the normal way of doing things in the church. I am for dialogue.

You are for dialogue, because you are a MODERNIST.

“We should be in communion,” he continued, “which also means in dialogue with each other. I hope all this controversy will end in a good, peaceful and meaningful dialogue.”

Yes, “dialogue,” where modernist heresies are allowed to sprout and grow, unchecked save for an occasional minor comment from Rome, consigning millions of souls to hell, forever.  But Cardinal Kasper doesn’t believe in hell, now, does he, because an infinitely merciful God would never be so cruel as to consign anyone to hell.


1. Lynne - May 8, 2014

The Franciscans and the Dominicans fought over the Immaculate Conception in the 16th(?) century. Both sides leveled the term heretic against the other (back when heretic was something to be avoided). Regarding the cardinals, I’m just thankful some of them are re-iterating the Truth.

2. LaGallina - May 8, 2014

Thanks for the news updates. You are the best source, and commentary, for what is happening in the Catholic world.

When I think of the troubles the Church has had in the past, I know they don’t compare to today’s upside down world because at any other time in history a reverent traditional Latin Mass was the norm. Now a true Mass can be hard to find, and the majority of the clergy (from priests to cardinals to the pope himself) have a negative opinion of the True Mass. The Mass that nourished all of the saints is now considered weird or rebellious by our Church leadership. Now that is bizarre!!

Daniel Brooks - May 12, 2014

That’s the reason I keep coming back to this blog. Great reporting and commentary.

3. discipleofthedumbox - May 8, 2014

The Church has certainly lived through some very difficult times. It is hard for us moderns to appreciate this and thus we can tend to despair unnecessarily so.

tantamergo - May 8, 2014

Point noted, but aside from the depths of the Arian heresy when Pope Liberius signed on to the heresy under extreme duress, and even excommunicated St. Athanasius again, and perhaps the really bad years 1530-1550 when the Church was just not responding to protestant revolution, there has never been anything close to what we’re seeing today.

discipleofthedumbox - May 8, 2014

Granted. And, in fact, I was thinking about those exact same instances in Church history. To a lesser? degree, the period of time when we also had three popes. Well, actually one pope and two anti-popes. Oh, and the Great Schism and the threat of Islam just prior to the watershed Battle of Lepanto…wow, we can go on and on and on…

4. Branch - May 8, 2014

Dialogue, dialogue, dialogue…to what end? Why is that question never addressed?

Dismas - May 8, 2014

It is just too confusing for me in those moments when I forget that we have two utterly different religions “subsisting in” the same ecclesiastical structure. I welcome it every time these sorts of things occur because it snaps me back to reality.

tantamergo - May 8, 2014

And the sense seems to be growing that, should things reach a breaking point this fall or next, we will see those two churches formally split apart.

5. TG - May 8, 2014

I believe Cardinal Kasper is a heretic, too. The new Luther or new Arius. Our Lady said bishop would be against bishop in one of the prophesies.

Byzcat - May 9, 2014


6. Rebecca Joan - May 8, 2014

If Kasper isn’t a heretic then who the heck is??

Baseballmom - May 9, 2014

No one.

Hannah - May 10, 2014

“Rome has lost the Faith, my dear friends. Rome is in apostasy. It is sure, sure, sure.”

Hopefully, everybody is going to start heeding Archbishop Lefebvre.

Pray Rome converts to the True Faith.

7. David - May 9, 2014

Regarding the LCWR, the stories from the Associated Press last Tuesday wereu written with a “slant” along the lines of “Why is Pope Francis picking on us? Why is this investigation continuing?” I wish the Associated Press would emphasize that the orders affiliated with the LCWR are composed of women 60+ with dwindling numbers, while Faithful Catholic women under 35 years of age are knocking on the doors of the more solid orders that are thriving. When I have helped with vocation retreats, the women under 35 always ask about “real” nuns (seriously).

8. RC - May 9, 2014

The good ole SSPX is looking purdy good right now.
I’m personally holding out until October and VII…I mean the Synod on the Family, to decide if I will join them or not.
I wouldn’t at all even remotely doubt that teachings will try to be changed. I personally think that the synod in October and it’s aftermath will be a big decision making moment for a lot of faithful Catholics who stick with the VII Church out of fear of becoming schismatic if we leave (I am one of the people).

Either that or we are EXTREMELY close to the great chastisement that the BVM warned us about…have we gotten any better than 1917 or the 1970’s at Akita..Me thinks not.

What are your thoughts on this Tantam?

RC - May 9, 2014

Meant VIII**

9. JeffB - May 9, 2014

I do not trust any translations of the Pope’s words into English. I have seen enough proof from trusted sources that when the Pope does not sound Catholic, then he is most likely being mis-translated and or mis-quoted.

Byzcat - May 9, 2014

Examples please.

10. Lorra - May 9, 2014

It appears to me that we are always moving the goal posts up. First it was the canonizations, now it is the October synod.

Who made this man cardinal? Wasn’t it Benedict? Surely they knew what he was like.

Don’t expect them to change Church teaching. They are smarter than that. They will just change their “pastoral approach.”

Personally, I think Francis should step down for the good of the Church.

11. Pseudodionysius - May 9, 2014

Not only does he believe Hell is empty, but air-conditioned.

RC - May 9, 2014

He’ll believe in it when he gets here. The Church is pretty clear on its teachings of where unreported heretics go. He probably thinks he is doing a lot of good for the Church saying these things.

RC - May 9, 2014

Hate Autocorrect!!


12. Jeremy - May 9, 2014

As a traditional catholc, im feeling more and more isolated. Pretty soon we,ll be associated with some small sect. This worries me.

13. Homosexuality vs. the Trinity, or your heterodoxy is showing #UMC | Unsettled Christianity - May 9, 2014

[…] We are witnessing the Church at war with itself (veneremurcernui.wordpress.com) […]

14. michaelsbradleyjr - May 9, 2014

I might analyze differently a few points here and there, but overall I think the author is correct. A destructive storm is brew inside the Church… and enemy-storms are brewing without as well.

On a positive note, what we can do as individual Christians is deepen our love and faithfulness to our Eucharistic Lord, cultivate strikingly personal relationships with the Blessed Virgin Mary and St. Joseph, and go to confession frequently; we must not be afraid to roll up our sleeves and study (read, meditate/pray upon) spiritual classics, learn more about Church history and traditional liturgy, and firm up our grasp on the doctrines of the Catholic Faith. Just as important, every week if not every day, we should be *actively* seeking opportunities to die to self and for the love of Christ serve people who are poor and/or neglected, without expectation or hope of anything in return, and in a way that has a measurable impact on one’s wallet and free time relative to how those resources might otherwise go to our own entertainment, new/nicer possessions and clothes, etc.

Souls who are so preparing themselves will not despair when things get worse for Our Lord’s Church, both inside and out… and I think the writing’s on the wall that things are going to get painfully worse in coming years.

15. Mack - May 9, 2014

Why did the Pope, today, put all of our work and property and hopes into the hands of the secular, anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic State (and “State” is capitalized in the Vatican document)? His predecessors (St. Pius VII comes to mind) spoke bravely against statism. What is happening?

Observer - May 10, 2014

Enter your comment here…To what news item are you referring?

16. Mack - May 9, 2014

Sorry – I was trying to write “St. Pius XII”; haste is truly wasteful.

17. RC - May 11, 2014

Did anyone see where Pope Francis met with Bishop Fellay of the SSPX in the last couple of months?

18. Remnant Clergy - May 12, 2014

Reblogged this on The Biblical False Prophet Has Arrived and commented:
Indeed. Expect the great schism after the October 2014 Synod.

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