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Is the Fr. Barron appointment a case of both dioceses getting the worst of the deal? July 21, 2015

Posted by Tantumblogo in different religion, disaster, episcopate, error, foolishness, General Catholic, horror, Papa, scandals, secularism, self-serving, shocking, Society, the return, the struggle for the Church.
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I have seen two kinds of reactions to Fr. Barron’s appointment as auxiliary bishop of Los Angeles.  Reaction one is that this will hurt Chicago’s Mundelien Seminary’s orthodoxy and demonstrates an advancing modernization (in the heretical sense) of the Archdiocese by new ordinary Blaise Cupich.  The other reaction says this is really bad for LA, as now a man who advances noxious notions regarding the reality of hell, Christ’s self-awareness of His divinity, and Original Sin will be unleashed on poor, suffering LA.

I wonder: can’t both be right? While Barron is very troubling in some of his beliefs, truth be told, there are a lot worse choices one could make for seminary rector.  Instead of having a rector that held several errors, he might well be replaced with one who holds dozens or more.  That’s damning with faint praise, and adherence to heresy in one area is surely grounds for excommunication/damnation and much else, but, in this time of unprecedented crisis, there have been and are men even more divorced from the Faith than he in charge of priestly formation in many dioceses (including this one).

And now LA will get a very high profile bishop with a major media apostolate who just happens to err from divine revelation and Catholic Dogma on several matters:

This morning, Pope Francis formally announced Father Robert Barron’s appointment as auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.

Bishop-Elect Barron is the founder of Word on Fire Catholic Ministries, host of the award-winning CATHOLICISM film series, and since 2012 has served as the Rector/President of the University of Saint Mary of the Lake/Mundelein Seminary outside of Chicago, IL.

Barron’s whopper on hell (I provide this as an example of what NOT to believe, as in what is contrary to our Blessed Lord’s own words):

Some past posts excoriating Barron’s faulty beliefs.  Note that belief that Adam and Eve are “theological poetry” is a near-admission of belief in evolution of the species as well as feeding directly into the idea of universal salvation.  If there was no Original Sin, no Fall of Man, then Christ died for nothing, and we are all the most foolish of men for having believed in Him.  But Adam and Eve did sin, man did fall, and Christ’s suffering and death was the only possible sacrifice of sufficient magnitude to atone for the infinite evil of sin.  Those who reject Christ and/or die in their sins, unconfessed and unrepentant, will spend all eternity in hell, and I hold that to be a dogmatic belief of the Church.

I guess I’ll never be fit material for a bishop, then, huh?

PS – The positive spin is that this is good to help de-Mahoneyize LA, and maybe it will be beneficial in that regard, but I just can’t get past Barron’s really scandalous statements, statements, it must be said, he has stood by in the face of strong criticism.

Comments

1. Margaret Costello - July 21, 2015

Ah, welcome to the “full communion” Church where the requirement to become bishop is that you are a public heretic. God bless~

Tim - July 21, 2015

Yeah, but at least he is not one of those “Partial Communion” guys who deny not one iota of Catholic Doctrine, like the eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil Bishop Fellay. I wonder how Mr. Voris will respond(if he does at all). He is a fierce critic of Fr. Barron and yet the Pope(whom Voris, Carroll and Niles say it is a mortal sin to “criticize”) has made this appointment.

The inmates are running the asylum.

Baseballmom - July 21, 2015

I know I should not…. But I laughed out loud at your comment…. I believe you are correct….

2. Brian - July 21, 2015

Re: ” Note that belief that Adam and Eve are “theological poetry ….”

Mis-begotten speculation like this is lethal. It is not peripheral. It should disqualify a Priest from the hierarchy. It infects the heart of the faith and kills it. Why?

I believe Catholic theology holds that Jesus and Mary are the new Adam and the new Eve, and that when we are baptized into the Faith we are baptized as their children into life, after being born into the world as children of the fallen, and very real, Adam and Eve. That is why Baptism is essential to salvation. We are literally re-born. That is why veneration of Mary is essential. She is literally our new Mother. That IS our Faith. Without this belief; if there is no victory over the specific sin of our very real First Parents, then the life of Christ is ultimately just poetry and legend as well; which explains so much the current Age’s lack of seriousness.

What Christ did at Calvary was an epochal transformation of the specific disorder chosen by our first parents. Christ put the sinful fruit back on the tree, and Mary in full submission participated in the act, dolorously with her Son at the foot of the new “Tree of Life” (the Cross). Some even speculate that Calvary was on the very spot of the original Garden of Eden. The Tree that brought death to the world was made alive through the power and work of our Saviour Jesus Christ: the New Adam.

Real first. Poetic second.

Tantumblogo - July 21, 2015

Very well put. I agree that Barron is noxious, but, incredibly, he is probably better than many who could replace him. I guess we’ll see.

3. Tim - July 21, 2015

Bishop Sheen or Bishop Barron?….I know who I’m sticking with.

4. Woody - July 21, 2015

Does Cupich ask Francis to get rid of Barron for him? Francis obliges and sends Barron, who may be “too conservative” for Francis to LaLa Land where he can be “re-educated” to fit the new catholic church. In the mean time, Cupich gets to put in charge of the seminary one of his own boys to make sure the new catholic church has the right kind of priests. The persecution will continue.

5. Dismas - July 21, 2015

Increasingly, being concerned about the novusordinarians latest antic is becoming more like worrying about what the universal unitarianists are doing. If they had not taken over the Catholic Church, we would pay them no mind.

Tantumblogo - July 21, 2015

I think that’s about right. These things are important only for the bearing they have on souls and the good of the Church.

Dismas - July 21, 2015

Ditto.

6. c matt - July 21, 2015

Errors and all, is Barron an improvement in LA? I’ve heard so many horror stories about LA, I would think Barron is an improvement although not ideal (would prefer a more “Lion Heart”).

Brian - July 21, 2015

I would submit that when it comes to the Catholic Faith, our Bishops have to believe it and profess it whole and ENTIRE … 100%, no exceptions. Or we do not need their service as a Bishop.

It is unacceptable for a Bishop to speculate that Adam and Eve were not real; mere poetry. And that Hell is NOT a real place; that a loving God could not possibly point His finger to His creature and say “depart from me he evil-doer…” , consigning people to HELL?!

A man who purveys “Super – Trad” in comparison to the rest of the field, biut who ALSO mixes in noxious heresy is the more dangerous because the heresy is more likely to be ignored, and thus accepted, by those looking for some small sliver of hope.

Tantumblogo - July 21, 2015

I agree, I don’t think his “relative orthodoxy” is going to be a boon to LA or anywhere else. A very sad commentary, is this to what we have fallen, hoping for bishops that only hold a few heresies?

7. Judy - July 22, 2015

Dismas, I love the new terminology — “novusordinarians.” We’re trying to bring many faithful but road-blocked Catholics to the TLM. I’m kind of amazed at the reasons people give for not wanting to make the switch. Quite often it seems that one spouse does not want to rock the boat. Second to that is travel time. (The last one is kind of lame, because I know the distances many will travel for recreational activities.)

Tim Thunell - July 22, 2015

“Novus Ordites” works also.

Dismas - July 22, 2015

Sure. God bless you, Judy and good luck. In a sort of twist of logic I think that our Holy Father might be helping in your effort. Lines are becoming more clearly drawn. But someone brought each of us back to authentic Catholic liturgy and we need to pass it forward.

8. reader - July 22, 2015

FYI – Blessed Fr. Alberione, media apostle, Pauline Founder

James Alberione – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Alberione
————————————————————–
About | Media Apostle

http://mediaapostle.com/about/ — Note on this website he is endorsed by Fr. Barron and a Life Teen filmmaker.
—————————————————————

I learned about him from a prayer card someone left at our parish a few years ago. It has a picture of him with a big movie camera on one side and a prayer on the other. I googled the prayer but didn’t find it although it may be out there. Here it is:

“Pauline Offertory for the Media”

Father, in union with all those who today celebrate the Eucharist, I wish to offer myself, a small victim, with Jesus, the Victim.

— in antonement for error and scandal spread throughout the world throught the misuse of the means of social communication;
–to appeal to Your mercy for those persons, who, deceived and seduced by the influence of these instruments, stray from Your fatherly love;
–for the conversion of those persons, who, in the use of these instruments, reject the teaching of Christ and His Church, and thus warp the minds, hearts, and undertakings of men and women;
–that we may follow Him alone, whom You, Father, in Your boundless love, sent into the world, saying, “This is My beloved Son, hear Him;”
–to acknowledge and to make known the Jesus alone, the Word Incarnate, is the perfect Teacher, the trustworthy Way, Who leads to knowledge of You, Father, and to a partaking in Your life;
–that there be, in the Church, an increase in the number of priests, religious and lay persons who, consecrated as apostles of social communication, will make the message of salvation resound throughout the world;
–that all those, who work within the framework of social communication, may grow in holiness and wisdom and bear witness to an authentic Christian life;
–that the undertakings of Catholics, within the sphere of social communication, may continually increase so that, by promoting more effectively genuine human and Christian values, the voice of error and evil will be counteracted;
–that, well aware of our insufficiency and unworthiness, we may realize the need to draw near the Font of Life, in all humility and trust, and to be nourished with Your Word, Father, and with the Body of Christ, invoking light, love and mercy for all men and women. Amen.

9. Branch - July 22, 2015

If the floor of Hell is paved with bishops’ skulls, then may we reasonably hope that Fr. Barron will be saved?

10. David - July 22, 2015

I don’t know what the current state of St. Johns Seminary in Camarillo is in, but in the 80s and 90s it was horrible, almost as bad as Vianney in Florida during that time (Vianney went through a cleansing when Wenski arrived). I would hope that with Mahoney no longer at the helm (and Zavala gone, Zavala had a secret life, and I am convinced Mahoney knew about it and IMHO when Gomez found out he contributed to Zavala resigning), St. Johns I hope has gotten better.

Quite a few seminaries have turned around -Sacred Heart in Detroit, Mount St. Marys of the West in Cincinnati, and I’ve heard Assumption in San Antonio has had some turnover for the better.

11. nissa_loves_cats - July 22, 2015

I am a Catholic convert and I do believe in the teaching of the Church, to the extent that I know and understand it. I found some of what Fr. Barron said actually helpful in understanding the pains of hell and that people who go there are there by their own choice. I WAS bothered by him saying that we don’t know if any human being is in hell, though. Some do actually go there, don’t they? I mean, if Hitler and Stalin didn’t repent one iota before death, wouldn’t they be in hell?

Baseballmom - July 22, 2015

Yes, the Church teaches with authority that any soul who dies in the state of mortal sin will be in Hell for all eternity. Our Lord is very clear when he says that “the road is soft and easy under foot that leads to damnation, and MANY choose it; the road is difficult that leads to Life and FEW take it” – so it is rather strange that Fr. Barron would say what he did about hell’s “occupancy.” That said, I agree with the concept, and the Church makes it very clear, that the soul, in HIS FREEDOM, damns himself. God does not do this, we do it. And, long before I ever heard of Fr. Barron I had the thought that the same Great Light that will be a source of eternal bliss for the saved, will also be a source of eternal agony for the damned. That is just my own thought…. Take it or toss it…

Brian - July 22, 2015

Lucifer and his angel demons were cast out of Heaven by force. They did not choose to go willingly. They will be, in fact, bound in chains in e fiery place at the end of time forever.

At judgement, Jesus, on the Throne of Judgement, actually separates the sheep from the goats and CONSIGNS evil-doers to eternal flame. “Depart from me …” People are not willingly jumping into the lake of fire in this account.

And then there is the rich man in the Bible described by Jesus who DESPERATELY wished to cross over, but COULD NOT. No, not even a sip of water from Lazarus.

Hell is a horrifyingly painful place. Everyone there wishes not to be. If we don’t believe that alongside the paradise of the Beatific Vision, we cannot live the Faith and we cannot evangelize the world out of their sin.

Fr. Barron’s view of hell is dangerous and lethal.

12. Baseballmom - July 22, 2015

Shoot…. Sent a long reply and it did not go through…

Dismas - July 22, 2015

That has happened to me more times than I can count. It is a WordPress error of some sort that Tantum is aware of. I have been able to hit the “back” button sometimes and recover them. I also try to remember to copy a longer response in case that happens and then try later.

13. Gregory the Great - July 22, 2015

I will stick to Archbishop Fulton Sheens solid teaching of Hell. Barron’s modernism on not attending the party is full of holes and his own ego.


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