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Pope Francis threatening the TLM? Some of his strongest words yet against Tradition November 13, 2015

Posted by Tantumblogo in different religion, disaster, episcopate, foolishness, General Catholic, horror, Papa, persecution, Revolution, scandals, secularism, self-serving, SOD, the struggle for the Church.

As Hilary White the very handsome but not quite so lovely as Hilary White Patrick Archbold asks, is this the big reveal, where the (her term) villain of our story reveals his nefarious plans for all the world to see?  Not sure, but Pope Francis’ remarks against the traditional practice of the Faith – aka Catholicism – made on Nov. 10 were some of his strongest, yet:

“Before the problems of the church it is not useful to search for solutions in conservatism or fundamentalism, in the restoration of obsolete conduct and forms that no longer have the capacity of being significant culturally,” the pontiff said at one point during his remarks. [So is that why the FIs were thriving, when almost every other “conciliar” religious order is dead or in its death throes?]

“Christian doctrine is not a closed system incapable of generating questions, doubts, interrogatives – but is alive, knows being unsettled, enlivened,” said the pope. “It has a face that is not rigid, it has a body that moves and grows, it has a soft flesh: it is called Jesus Christ.” [I’m sorry, but this is a very modernist-leaning understanding of the Faith. It is an understanding many great Saints and Fathers would largely reject]

“The reform of the church then, and the church is semper reformanda… does not end in the umpteenth plan to change structures,” he continued. “It means instead grafting yourself to and rooting yourself in Christ, leaving yourself to be guided by the Spirit – so that all will be possible with genius and creativity.” [perpetual revolution in practice doctrine, then?  The modernist program in full flower]

Patrick Arcbold (Ugh group blogs, so confusing) adds:

The Pope has revealed himself and is telling us what he is going to do. It is impossible not to see him for who he is and what he intends to do. Nobody has the luxury of feigning surprise at what comes next. The Pope is the hackneyed director and writer of his own story and he has given it all away.

In the movies, the mechanism of the “big reveal” serves two purposes. It serves the obvious purpose ofletting the audience clearly know which side this key character is on. It also serves to let the story’s protagonist know that his cause is futile. He cannot possibly win.

Practically speaking, when the more “fundamentalist” sects are some of the only Christian churches still growing in the Church and around the world, how can the Pope possibly make this claim, when liberalism can be categorically shown to be the death of Christianity?  Furthermore, how does he square such belief for the Catholic Church with his fawning relationship with fundamentalist evangelicals like Kenneth Copeland?  Does he believe protestantism is fundamentally – forgive the term – liberal and prone towards doctrinal re-writing and evolution?  If so, he’s correct, but it still seems a very odd juxtaposition, at least philosophically, knowing how uber-conservative some of his evangelical BFFs are.

As to Tradition, and the star around which it orbits, the TLM, it’s difficult not to see in the above at most a begrudging willingness to let it continue, for now.  But long term, I think it plain the Pope feels it a total dead end, and something that will have to go away sooner or later.

Reader MFG asks how to square these statements with the Pope’s olive branch to the SSPX.  I don’t know that they have to square, I think Pope Francis is very impulsive but generally acts more for political than doctrinal reasons. He may see an advantage in terms of internal Church politics to granting (as if by divine decree, since no mechanism whatsoever was established for this) faculties to SSPX priests for the upcoming “Year of Mercy.”  One thing is certain, this Pope feels no compulsion whatsoever to intellectual consistency.  He’s all over the map.

What say youse guys?



1. S. Armaticus - November 13, 2015

I think the answer to why Francis extends an olive branch to SSPX is an easy one. If you recall when Benedict set up the Ordinate for the Anglicans, Bergoglio was pissed. Supposedly he went over the the head Anglican and told him that the Catholic Church needs you “as you are”. I think this is the same with the SSPX. What Francis thinks is that since the SSPX were always true to Catholicism, he wants their Catholicism in the World Church just like he wants the Anglicism of the Anglicans. Why he hates the Restoration is that he thinks it betrays the “spirit of the new springtime” of Vatican II. For Francis, VII is a break with Catholicism. It is a new religion. He can’t come out and say it, because it is not in his interest to create a split right now. To much of the Church’s assets are still in the wrong hands. But there will come a time when he will think that he has enough FrancisBishops in place to make the split “viable”. And then he will make his move.

I think a good idea of where Francis thinks he is in the process will be at the next consistory. He doesn’t need to make any new cardinal since he made too many last time. If he comes out and make 30 new red hats, we will know it is only a matter of time.

Those are my 2 cents….

Tantumblogo - November 17, 2015

Thanks for the comment. Sorry it was held up in spam.

S. Armaticus - November 17, 2015

No problem.

2. tg - November 13, 2015

“grafting yourself to and rooting yourself in Christ, leaving yourself to be guided by the Spirit” – which spirit is he talking about. Why doesn’t he put “Holy” in front of it. I was wondering when you would post on this.

Estella - November 15, 2015

I’ve been wondering that myself…what Spirit? He always talks about the “Sprit” but never puts Holy in front of it.

3. Tim - November 13, 2015

“What say youse guys?”…..Texas slang? It reminds me of a similiar Pittsburgh, PA slang of my youth where I grew up…..”yunz”. Yes, I am a Steeler fan and I don’t like the Cowboys….no offense intended(I like friendly rivalries). The poor Cowboys in the 70s never had a chance in Super Bowls X & XIII against the greatest NFL team ever assembled.

To the subject at hand…..I have given up on trying to understand Francis….too confusing and upsetting at times. I just pray for him and trust in God. In the present situation I thank God that he sent us Archbishop LeFebvre. I pray for the day that the SSPX, FSSP and ICK are no longer a necessity. I do not believe I will live to see it, maybe, God willing my kids will.

Tantumblogo - November 13, 2015

I’ve been around. I had a good friend from Pittsburgh but she sadly turned lesbian. We used to play hockey together.

Tim - November 13, 2015
Tantumblogo - November 13, 2015

So there was Iron City beer, right? And Yuengling. Awful. She used to bring some back from Pittsburgh.

Tim - November 13, 2015

Yep, used to drive right past the Iron City Brewery when I was attending the University of Pittsburgh. Lots of it downed by the adults of my youth. For something REALLY GOOD, if you’re ever in Pittsburgh go to Wholey’s Seafood for lunch….FANTASTIC fish sandwiches! They’ve been there for over 100 years!

A Mom - November 13, 2015

Ah, youse guys…wouldn’t be SE PA without it. Brought a little tear to my eye. I should break that one out for the kids just to see their reaction.

Tim - November 13, 2015

I think you meant SW PA.
God Bless!

Tantumblogo - November 16, 2015

See, there was this school trip to Washington, DC. And somehow the buses carrying the kids from a suburb of Dallas wound up parking outside the NASM with a group of buses carrrying kids from Philly. Boy meets girl. Etc. They thought my pronunciation of water was hilarious, though I have no idea how you get “wooder” from watt-er.

4. John Vicente - November 13, 2015

Sorry, not Hilary White, Patrick Archbold .

5. catholicguy - November 13, 2015

I say, he must be a fan of “The Permanent Revolution” by Leon Trotsky.

6. Marguerite - November 14, 2015

I pray for either the conversion of Pope Francis or for his defeat. I pray that the Church raise up holy priests, religious and laity. From reading the history of the Church, there have been darker times in our Catholic History battling various heresies promulgated by priests or bishops, i.e. Aries, Luther. So we shouldn’t be surprised or shocked this is happening at the highest levels in the Church. Satan’s attack started with the family, then the children, then the priests and now the prelates at the highest levels. I respect for PF’s position as Vicar of Christ but believe he has fallen for the lie and instead of upholding doctrine, he is attacking it. It’s nothing less than diabolical. The Catechism of the CC tells us that dogma are the lights that guide us in our Faith. Unfortunately PF talks about global warming and not the pollution of souls. He says nothing about striving for holiness, purity, sanctifying grace and living a life of virtue. In my opinion, he is a secular humanist masquerading as a shepherd.

Tantumblogo - November 17, 2015

Very good comment. Sorry it was delayed.

7. TPE - November 14, 2015

You said it. PopeFra is intellectually inconsistent. Traddies are viewed as modern Pharisees. Robert de Mattei’s translated article at Rorate Caeli “The Pharisees and Saducees of our time” is brilliant.

8. Baseballmom - November 15, 2015

One thing is very clear. PF hates the TLM…. for whatever reason he truly hates it. And yes, he is very impulsive…. Like a little child… Sometimes I wonder if the elevator goes all the way to the top….

9. TS - November 17, 2015

What kind of Pope would denigrate a Rite that puts God FIRST? Only a Pope who is ignorant. This Pope will force Catholics to learn how to be Catholic under a mediocre papacy.

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