Pope Francis says Lutheranism, Catholicism essentially same, Lutherans can ‘discern’ to receive Eucharist? November 16, 2015Posted by Tantumblogo in abdication of duty, Basics, different religion, disaster, Ecumenism, episcopate, General Catholic, horror, Papa, Revolution, scandals, secularism, self-serving, sickness, Society, the struggle for the Church.
By the time this guy is done, will there be anything left?
Pope Francis visited the Evangelical Lutheran community in Rome yesterday. Yes, all 137 of them. He was asked some questions by the audience. This was his response to a question regarding whether a “faithful” Lutheran woman married to a “faithful” Catholic husband could not receive the Blessed Sacrament in the Church. The answer is scandalous, and seems to lean positive:
When asked together to share the Lord’s Supper, it is not easy for me to answer you, especially not in the presence of theologians like Cardinal Kasper! I’m afraid! [laughs;laughter; Applause] [OK, first, the question was phrased in the highly misleading protestant phraseology regarding “partaking the Lord’s Supper.” This kind of language was deliberately adopted by the protestant revolutionaries due to their explicit rejection of Catholic Eucharistic theology – the essence of our Faith – regarding the Sacrificial nature of the Mass, the Real Presence, the sacerdotal priesthood, and all the rest. So the question was phrased in a way that should have been offensive to pious Catholic ears from the start, and really merited a response on that basis alone. But that is not what happened, sadly……]
I think that the Lord has told us when he gave us this mandate: “Do this in remembrance of me”. And if we share the Lord’s Supper, remember and imitate him, we do the same, that the Lord Jesus has done. And the Lord’s supper, there will be the last banquet in the New Jerusalem, but that will be the last. On the way, however, I wonder – and I do not know how to answer, but will make your question my own – I ask myself: Is this common Lord’s Supper the goal of a path or it is to go the provision for the road to go together? I leave the question to the theologians, those who understand something of it. [What kind of shepherd – especially Vicar of Christ – constantly waves his hands in the air, turning problems not even over to especially delegated authority, but to nameless, faceless “theologians?” What role have they ever played in really formulating doctrine? The vast majority have no particular office at all. OH, but they would love to arrogate to themselves doctrinal authority, which Pope Francis seems quite willing – when it suits his audience – to endorse.]
It is true that in some ways that there are no differences between us; that we have the same doctrine [No, we don’t] – I underline the word, a difficult-to-understand word – but I wonder: But have we not the same baptism? And if we have the same baptism, then we have to go together. [What?!? No one aside extreme progressives have ever pretended that baptism is a sufficient basis for faith, for establishing essential equivalence between the Church and sects. This is incredible]
………When you pray together, this baptism is growing strongly; if you teach your children who Jesus is, why Jesus came, what Jesus has done for us, you are doing the same whether in the Lutheran language or in the Catholic language, but it is the same. [No, it isn’t. I’m a former protestant. The Catholic Church and protestantism are NOT THE SAME. They can NEVER be the same. The fact that the Pope seems to think they are breaks my heart, and causes me to have the strongest possible doubts regarding his fitness to hold such an august office]The Question: And the Supper? There are issues on which one, if one is honest with himself and with the few theological “Lumina”, which I have, nonetheless must respond, see for yourself. “This is my body, this is my blood,” the Lord has said, “do this in remembrance of me”, and that’s a provision on the way which helps us to go. I had a great friendship with a 48-year-old, married Anglican bishop [he’s referring to Tony Parker. And he was a “bishop”] with two children and he had this difficulty: a Catholic wife, Catholic children, himself a bishop. He accompanied his wife and children on Sunday for Mass, then went and directed the worship with his community. It was a step of participation in the Lord’s Supper. Then he was gone, the Lord has called him, a righteous man. [Wow, so I guess we needn’t pray for him?] On your question I will pose to you only one question: How can I go with my husband, so that the Lord’s Supper [Stop with “Lord’s Supper!” That is an incredibly loaded phrase in a protestant milieu. They mean something radically different than traditional Catholic Eucharistic theology. AND THAT IS WHY THEY CANNOT RECEIVE!!!] accompanies me on my way? This is a problem that everyone must answer. But a pastor friend told me: “We believe that the Lord is there at present. He is present. You believe that the Lord is present. And where is the difference?” —- “Ah, there are the statements, interpretations … “. [No, Lutherans believe in consubstantiation, a very different thing from transubstantiation. And it depends very much which variety of Lutheran you are speaking to – many reject the Real Presence outright, con- or trans-, just as many Catholics do]
Life is greater than the explanations and interpretations. Take always with respect to the baptism: “One faith, one baptism, one Lord,” Paul tells us, and draw the consequences. I’ll never dare to give permission to do this, because it is not my responsibility. One baptism, one Lord, one faith. Speak with the Lord and continue. I do not dare to say more.
So there it is, isn’t it? Isn’t he basically telling her “I can’t tell you what to do [what a lie!] but I can wink wink nudge nudge suggest you might give it a try wink nudge. Can you imagine a pope speaking in this way? This is the second time he’s said, directly, I’m basically speaking error here, even heresy, but gosh darnit I just can’t help myself! Speaking of which, this post from several months ago is most important to reconsider, is it not?
Am I being too harsh? Is this yet another step on the Francis error train – first it was mortally sinful Catholics being admitted to Communion, now it’s protestants, pretty soon, will it be the entire world? And what sacredness, what uniqueness, will the Blessed Sacrament have when it’s available to everyone including dogs and Chinamen, when it is a veritable “reward” for bad behavior?
It is amazing what is going on. I would not believe it, if I did not have to live it every day.
PS – Phoenix from the Ashes, the book by HJA Sire I’ve blogged on a few times, really, totally destroys the modernist inventions regarding the Mass and the priesthood, especially notions like the “Lord’s Supper” theology laid out in the heretical 1969 General Instruction of the Roman Missal for the 1969 Mass and allied items. I hope to get to some of that this week, but it’s pretty hard to condense to a post. I shall try, however.
UPDATE: Some comments on this from Vox Cantoris. I know some commenters feel very strongly that Pope Francis is, for certain, a heretic. I simply cannot allow myself to make that kind of judgment, for reasons that are as personal as they are my understanding of how the Church works. But the below, I can and do very much agree with. Good job DD for putting this so well.
Jorge Bergoglio, stop this insanity. You are the Bishop of Rome! You are creating division and anxiety amongst the Catholic faithful. You are creating confusion. You are playing with heresy. You have told this woman to commit sacrilege.
Step back from the brink of heresy
Bergloglio is on the verge of heresy. History will condemn him.
Is this enough for Bishops and Cardinals to intervene?