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Pope Francis says Lutheranism, Catholicism essentially same, Lutherans can ‘discern’ to receive Eucharist? November 16, 2015

Posted by Tantumblogo in abdication of duty, Basics, different religion, disaster, Ecumenism, episcopate, General Catholic, horror, Papa, Revolution, scandals, secularism, self-serving, sickness, Society, the struggle for the Church.
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By the time this guy is done, will there be anything left?

Pope Francis visited the Evangelical Lutheran community in Rome yesterday.  Yes, all 137 of them.  He was asked some questions by the audience.  This was his response to a question regarding whether a “faithful” Lutheran woman married to a “faithful” Catholic husband could not receive the Blessed Sacrament in the Church.  The answer is scandalous, and seems to lean positive:

When asked together to share the Lord’s Supper, it is not easy for me to answer you, especially not in the presence of theologians like Cardinal Kasper! I’m afraid! [laughs;laughter; Applause]  [OK, first, the question was phrased in the highly misleading protestant phraseology regarding “partaking the Lord’s Supper.”  This kind of language was deliberately adopted by the protestant revolutionaries due to their explicit rejection of Catholic Eucharistic theology – the essence of our Faith – regarding the Sacrificial nature of the Mass, the Real Presence, the sacerdotal priesthood, and all the rest.  So the question was phrased in a way that should have been offensive to pious Catholic ears from the start, and really merited a response on that basis alone.  But that is not what happened, sadly……]

I think that the Lord has told us when he gave us this mandate: “Do this in remembrance of me”. And if we share the Lord’s Supper, remember and imitate him, we do the same, that the Lord Jesus has done. And the Lord’s supper, there will be the last banquet in the New Jerusalem, but that will be the last. On the way, however, I wonder – and I do not know how to answer, but  will make your question my own – I ask myself: Is this common Lord’s Supper the goal of a path or it is to go the provision for the road to go together? I leave the question to the theologians, those who understand something of it. [What kind of shepherd – especially Vicar of Christ – constantly waves his hands in the air, turning problems not even over to especially delegated authority, but to nameless, faceless “theologians?”  What role have they ever played in really formulating doctrine? The vast majority have no particular office at all.  OH, but they would love to arrogate to themselves doctrinal authority, which Pope Francis seems quite willing – when it suits his audience – to endorse.]

It is true that in some ways  that there are no differences between us; that we have the same doctrine [No, we don’t]  – I underline the word, a difficult-to-understand word – but I wonder: But have we not the same baptism? And if we have the same baptism, then we have to go together. [What?!?  No one aside extreme progressives have ever pretended that  baptism is a sufficient basis for faith, for establishing essential equivalence between the Church and sects.  This is incredible]

………When you pray together, this baptism is growing strongly; if you teach your children who Jesus is, why Jesus came, what Jesus has done for us, you are doing the same whether in the Lutheran language or in the Catholic language, but it is the same. [No, it isn’t.  I’m a former protestant.  The Catholic Church and protestantism are NOT THE SAME. They can NEVER be the same. The fact that the Pope seems to think they are breaks my heart, and causes me to have the strongest possible doubts regarding his fitness to hold such an august office]The Question: And the Supper? There are issues on which one, if one is honest with himself and with the few theological “Lumina”, which I have, nonetheless must respond, see for yourself. “This is my body, this is my blood,” the Lord has said, “do this in remembrance of me”, and that’s a provision on the way which helps us to go. I had a great friendship with a 48-year-old, married Anglican bishop [he’s referring to Tony Parker.  And he was a “bishop”] with two children and he had this difficulty: a Catholic wife, Catholic children, himself a bishop. He accompanied his wife and children on Sunday for Mass, then went and directed the worship with his community. It was a step of participation in the Lord’s Supper. Then he was gone, the Lord has called him, a righteous man. [Wow, so I guess we needn’t pray for him?] On your question I will pose to you  only one question: How can I go with my husband, so that the Lord’s Supper [Stop with “Lord’s Supper!”  That is an incredibly loaded phrase in a protestant milieu.  They mean something radically different than traditional Catholic Eucharistic theology.  AND THAT IS WHY THEY CANNOT RECEIVE!!!] accompanies me on my way? This is a problem that everyone must answer. But a pastor friend told me: “We believe that the Lord is there at present. He is present. You believe that the Lord is present. And where is the difference?” —- “Ah, there are the statements, interpretations … “. [No, Lutherans believe in consubstantiation, a very different thing from transubstantiation.  And it depends very much which variety of Lutheran you are speaking to – many reject the Real Presence outright, con- or trans-, just as many Catholics do]

Life is greater than the explanations and interpretations. Take always with respect to the baptism: “One faith, one baptism, one Lord,” Paul   tells us, and draw the consequences. I’ll never dare to give permission to do this, because it is not my responsibility. One baptism, one Lord, one faith. Speak with the Lord and continue. I do not dare to say more.

So there it is, isn’t it?  Isn’t he basically telling her “I can’t tell you what to do [what a lie!] but I can wink wink nudge nudge suggest you might give it a try wink nudge. Can you imagine a pope speaking in this way?  This is the second time he’s said, directly, I’m basically speaking error here, even heresy, but gosh darnit I just can’t help myself!  Speaking of which, this post from several months ago is most important to reconsider, is it not?

Am I being too harsh?  Is this yet another step on the Francis error train – first it was mortally sinful Catholics being admitted to Communion, now it’s protestants, pretty soon, will it be the entire world?  And what sacredness, what uniqueness, will the Blessed Sacrament have when it’s available to everyone including dogs and Chinamen, when it is a veritable “reward” for bad behavior?

It is amazing what is going on.  I would not believe it, if I did not have to live it every day.

PS – Phoenix from the Ashes, the book by HJA Sire I’ve blogged on a few times, really, totally destroys the modernist inventions regarding the Mass and the priesthood, especially notions like the “Lord’s Supper” theology laid out in the heretical 1969 General Instruction of the Roman Missal for the 1969 Mass and allied items. I hope to get to some of that this week, but it’s pretty hard to condense to a post.  I shall try, however.

UPDATE:  Some comments on this from Vox Cantoris.  I know some commenters feel very strongly that Pope Francis is, for certain, a heretic.  I simply cannot allow myself to make that kind of judgment, for reasons that are as personal as they are my understanding of how the Church works.  But the below, I can and do very much agree with.  Good job DD for putting this so well.

Jorge Bergoglio, stop this insanity. You are the Bishop of Rome! You are creating division and anxiety amongst the Catholic faithful. You are creating confusion. You are playing with heresy. You have told this woman to commit sacrilege. 

Step back from the brink of heresy

Bergloglio is on the verge of heresy. History will condemn him.

Is this enough for Bishops and Cardinals to intervene?

Comments

1. RC - November 16, 2015

It’s time for this broken clock to ring again. Read Anne Catherine Emmerich’s prophesies. She specifically talks about this

Tantumblogo - November 16, 2015

Agreed.

2. Baseballmom - November 16, 2015

His deferring to theologians is the same as Obama’s constantly deferring to different Cabinet officials and other members of his administration…. Everything is above his pay grade……

Tantumblogo - November 17, 2015

What, no comment on my 11th gun? Am I cool now? Heh.

Baseballmom - November 17, 2015

The starter kit is getting better…. 😏

Tantumblogo - November 17, 2015

You know the old saying about begging forgiveness being easier than asking permission………that’s the only way this purchase happened.

3. tg - November 16, 2015

I’ve read somewhere that the goal is to destroy the Eucharist. That’s what they are doing. Maybe PF should read the missal at my church – it gives a better explanation as to why non-Catholics can’t receive the Eucharist. No, you are not being harsh.

4. Peter - November 16, 2015

Isn’t the answer simply “no, she may not receive communion?” Why does he babble so much?

Tantumblogo - November 16, 2015

That’s sure what I would think. That’s what any pope from Pius XII on before would have said, though I’m sure they would also have greatly edified both the soul in question and the faithful by elucidating on Catholic Eucharistic theology and spirituality and greatly aided souls in the process.

tg - November 17, 2015

I stole this from a comment on Father Z’s blog. Instead of a year of Mercy, we need a year of Silence from PF. (It deserved a gold star but Father Z didn’t give it.)

5. Brian - - November 16, 2015

When the Vicar of Christ on the plane home from Brazil (with the green and white beach ball in hand he later placed on the Holy Altar at the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome next to Jesus), rhetorically asked “who am I to judge”; it literally took my breath away.

Internally the conversation went like this: “What!? He is the Vicar of Jesus Christ; the living representative of our Lord on earth. If not him, then who?! If not him, then what is the point of his position? If not him then all moral standards are rendered irrelevant”.

And here we are, two years later, reaping the whirlwind of such premises. Catholic standards and magisterial truth is rendered irrelevant to the Protestant vision of “divine” conscience (preference?) that posits each human being is his own little church of one. If it feels good, do it!

6. Claire - November 17, 2015

God help us!

7. Kathleen - November 17, 2015

No, you most certainly are not being too harsh.

This is a terrible chastisement.

None of it is a surprise and yet each blow tears my heart and burns my eyes with tears.

We must make God and penance the center of our lives.

May God grant us what we need, not what we deserve.

8. Marguerite - November 17, 2015

I recently read in a book on the history of the Catholic Church that there were 27 anti-Popes. I’m not sure what exactly an anti-Pope is but it seems to me that Pope Francis makes the 28th.

9. Marguerite - November 17, 2015

A friend of mine who was a Lutheran asked me the same question and I told her that it was not permissible for her to receive Holy Communion if she were not a member of the Catholic Church and that our understanding of Holy Communion was different than her church’s. She was indignant but accepted my uncharitable divisiveness. Speed ahead, she is now a Catholic convert who puts me to shame by her devotion and love for our Catholic faith. So being “uncharitable” did not deter her or the Holy Spirit from drawing her to the truth found wholly and solely in the Catholic Church.

Baseballmom - November 17, 2015

Amen. Fr. Paul Marx was very uncharitable with me, and that too resulted in my coming fully back to the Faith.

10. AMOR DE LA VERDAD - November 18, 2015

[…] Francisco dice que el luteranismoy el catolicismo son esencialmente lo mismo, y que luteranos pueden… (veneremur Cernui) […]


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