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What do you think of this? Catholic Vote comes out against Trump hard and heavy January 28, 2016

Posted by Tantumblogo in disconcerting, error, General Catholic, It's all about the $$$, Revolution, secularism, self-serving, sexual depravity, Society, suicide, unbelievable BS.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, Trump is not conservative.  He is a life-long New York liberal, a fervent pro-abort and a man who has only very recently acquired most of his purported conservative views.  He is an establishment as they come, having been a part of the super-rich upper crust going back decades, even if he is somewhat idiosyncratic and iconoclastic. His personal morality is atrocious – he makes no bones of this – even though he is probably representative of a large plurality, if not a majority, of Americans in this.  If he is the nominee, I will probably vote third party.

With my personal opinion out of the way, Catholic Vote issued a pretty strong press release yesterday declaring faithful Catholics cannot support Trump, and giving a number of reasons for that.  I thought it was a pretty good analysis, and included some points I had not considered previously:

We have sifted through the most popular arguments in defense of Trump and listed them below along with our own take. Here they are:

1. “Trump is a leader we can trust”

While we share much of the frustration over the failure of the GOP to make significant progress, we are reminded of Republicans’ once oft-quoted criticism of President Bill Clinton: character matters.

Donald J. Trump left his first wife and married his mistress, only to leave her a few years later for another mistress. Reportedly he left his second wife by leaking the news to a NY newspaper and left the headline on the bed for his wife to find. In his book, The Art of the Deal, Trump bragged about having sex with many women, including some who were married. He has appeared on the cover of Playboy Magazine with a model wearing only his tuxedo jacket…….

Now ask yourself: does this man have the character becoming of the President of the United States?  [These days?  Probably.  As I said above, his personal behavior is probably no worse than that of 40% or more of the US populace today.  Most voters don’t care a whit for personal immorality any more. That went out the window in the 90s]

2. “Trump can’t be bought because he is rich!”

Trump is a salesmen, and salesmen don’t buy, they sell. So he won’t be “bought.” Instead he will sell out everyone and anyone when it benefits him, as he has his entire career. He was a liberal democrat, pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, pro-universal health care, pro-government bailouts, and a financial backer and friend of Hillary Clinton until he decided to run as a Republican last summer. He is the definition of an opportunist with no guiding principles.  [Agreed]

3. “Trump is a leader who will get things done”

Trump markets himself as an effective leader who will get things done simply by making “smart deals.” He refuses to explain precisely how he intends to deliver results, and more often than not, promises to use force or work around or outside the law. Such a leader mirrors what we currently see in the White House…… 

4. “Trump is a successful businessman who will make great deals”

If you believe the headlines, you would assume everything Donald Trump touches turns to gold. Not so. Trump has only demonstrated an ability to make deals that benefit him personally. Four times he bailed on his own casinos to shield himself from their impending bankruptcies. And then there is Trump Magazine, Trump Airlines, Trump Steaks/Steakhouse, Trump Vodka, and most famously Trump University, to name only a few — all bankrupt or closed, and massive failures. “Losers” as Trump is fond of saying……. [But he’s also had tremendous successes and is worth several billion, which is not inconsequential.  However, he is utterly ignorant of many key issues, especially related to foreign affairs, and I think Putin, the Chinese, and others would make mincemeat of his glad-handing salesman’s approach]

5. “Trump will end illegal immigration”

Trump has pledged to build a massive wall on our southern border and to make Mexico pay for it. Meanwhile he has promised to deport 11 million+ illegals, without explaining how, then plans to allow them all back in legally according to criteria he has yet to fully explain.

We agree illegal immigration is a problem that must be solved. Trump’s solution is delusional, strikes us as xenophobic — and truthfully, will never happen. If anything, Trump’s demagoguery on immigration showcases the emptiness of many of his promises. As President Obama has learned, American presidents don’t dictate laws. The Senate and House would have to pass any change of this magnitude, and such a solution has little to no chance of being approved. Border security and immigration enforcement are realistic fixes. Rounding up 11 million+ people and sending them back to Mexico is not practical or realistic, let alone humane. [Does anyone really believe he intends to actually do this?] Those who rightfully want to solve the problem of illegal immigration deserve more than crowd pleasing platitudes. And it’s certainly worth noting that Donald Trump criticized Mitt Romney for being too harsh on immigration back in 2012

6. “Trump will fight the Establishment!”

This defense of Trump is somewhat rich, given the irony that Trump himself has boasted of playing the game, paying off politicians and enriching himself from the very system he now purports to reform. Case in point: in the past week a growing number of so-called “establishment Republicans” have warmed to supporting Trump, people like Bob Dole and Trent Lott — including establishment Republicans in Iowa like Gov. Terry Branstad. Why? Because they believe, rightly in our view, that Trump doesn’t have any principles at the end of the day. He’s someone who will wheel and deal — and you and I will be stuck with the bill. [I disagree with this analysis.  The establishment loathes Trump.  But they are also desperate to get one of their insider candidates as the nominee.  Right now, the race is down to Trump and Cruz.  They hate Cruz almost as much as they hate Trump. They are playing a bit of a long game.  They are backing Trump now in the hope he beats Cruz and knocks him out early, then they will propose Rubio as the anti-Trump. They are praying Trump will subsequently meltdown and then they will have their amnesty boy Rubio there waiting in the wings.  That’s the only reason they are feigning support for Trump right now]

Electing Donald Trump would send the pro-life movement back to the 1990s, when the Republican Party wanted to run away from defending the unborn. In fact, Trump recommended his own sister, Maryanne Trump Berry, for the Supreme Court. She’s the federal judge who overturned New Jersey’s ban on grisly partial-birth abortions. The next President may choose as many as three or more new justices……..[I was unaware of this.  It shows Trump’s recent pro-life views are not real.]

7. “Trump is one of us”

Trump’s political conversions have all happened at very convenient times. As recently as 2000, Trump was firmly “pro-choice,” even refusing to oppose partial birth abortion! He was in favor of gay civil unions. He is open, even now, to subsidizing abortion giant Planned Parenthood with our tax dollars. He considers gay marriage a settled issue and has offered no plan to protect religious freedom. He is pro-universal health care, supported the stimulus package and government bailouts, supported gun control and a host of radical positions. Trump is like many Democrats we know. He is a political opportunist.

———End Quote———

I get why Trump is popular.  Immigration is the number one frustration among the Republican base right now. They see a field of candidates who, almost to a man, are in favor of shamnesty and continued unconstrained immigration.  They also see a field of candidates bought and sold by the Chamber of Commerce and huge dollar donors.  They see a whole bunch of men who have lied to them in the past, and failed to deliver on solemn promises.  They see men who promised to fight Obama given a large majority in both Houses of Congress, and then turned turtle and passed his agenda almost without question.

So Trump sells himself as an outsider, and he is obviously loathed by the GOP establishment, and he says the things a lot of people want to hear on immigration……..those are the top two items on much of the base’s agenda right now.  Stick it to the establishment (if not overthrow it), and do something to stop the ongoing, wholesale makeover of this country into a balkanized third world hodgepodge of recent, unassimilated immigrants.

He is also popular because he is so un-PC and willing to say many of those increasing number of things we’ve been told for 25 years now are forbidden.  That’s a cathartic experience for a lot of people.

I’m very dubious of Trump and would much prefer Cruz get the nomination – his conservative credentials are much more real – but I’m not sure how much difference it makes at this point, either.  The Congress will remain dominated by the GOP establishment and I think they would eagerly enlist democrats to block either man’s agenda.  And I think this country is way beyond a political savior, anyway.  We have a government of the elites, by the elites, and for the elites, and I doubt either man can overcome that.  As much as I wish Cruz was that man, he doesn’t have anything close to the charisma of a Reagan and even Reagan actually did almost nothing to reverse the growth of government, liberalism, and the entire left-wing agenda.  In fact it advanced as steadily in the 80s as any time before or since.

So while I’m convinced Trump is a self-serving ideologue and liberal at heart, whose administration would be something akin to an Obama redux with maybe some fence building…….does it matter?  I think Cruz would be much better, but better enough to really make a difference?  Probably not.



1. tg - January 28, 2016

My choice is Cruz but I would rather have Trump than that fugly witch or communist. Most people I know like Trump because he is not politically correct. Reagan did do something that had a big effect on government employees. He did away with the Civil Service Retirement System – a very generous annuity system. He introduced FERS – which is not at all generous in the computation formula and federal employees in the FERS contribute to Social Security.

2. Ursula - January 28, 2016

I’m voting for Cruz. Trump seems like an Obama on steroids, we don’t need another thin-skinned bully as President. That being said, I understand why he has the appeal he does, but I think it’s dangerous. If Trump becomes president there is going to be a lot of buyer’s remorse. I only have to reach back one generation into family history to know the danger of charismatic leader that presents himself as a savior of all the nation holds dear. That didn’t end well at all.

3. Tim - January 28, 2016

“his personal behavior is probably no worse than that of 40% or more of the US populace today.”…40%…you are most kind….I would double that figure and that’s conservative.

“Trump markets himself as an effective leader who will get things done simply by making “smart deals.” He refuses to explain precisely how he intends to deliver results”….and this makes him any different than the rest how?????

““Trump can’t be bought because he is rich!””…..again show me how the others are any different.

” I think Putin, the Chinese, and others would make mincemeat of his glad-handing salesman’s approach”…..again pretty much the same as the presidents back to Bush 41…Reagan got results in this category.

“Rounding up 11 million+ people and sending them back to Mexico is not practical or realistic, let alone humane.”……WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE? Is it humane to poor Americans to open the floodgates allow them to take more of the already scarce jobs and to bring more crime and violence to our country?

“The establishment loathes Trump.”……BULLS EYE.
The establishment needs to go AT ANY COST…that’s why I’m OK with Trump or Cruz. I believe, however, that Trump is necessary to shake things up enough to allow a future President Cruz or the like to get things done.

“He is a political opportunist.”……and who on all of those debate stages is any different?

Tantumblogo - January 28, 2016

Well……I don’t think quite 80% of the population is twice divorced with numerous affairs with married people just yet. Taking all his major moral problems into account, probably just under half is about right who have fallen into the same degree of immorality.

And it’s not so much that they sin. We all sin. It’s that they are unrepentant. Proudly unrepentant, and seeking to normalize their perversion.

Tim - January 28, 2016

I was using a wider target. There oily s more to immorality than divorce and multiple “marriages” and affairs. So I see how you got your number and now I hope you know how I got mine.
CRUZ/? 2024!
God Bless

Tantumblogo - January 29, 2016

Gotcha. I think we agree, I was thinking more of the sins against purity, but couple in greed and what else and yeah, probably more like 90% or more.

4. Michael Jarman - January 28, 2016

First of all, “Catholic Vote” is self-styled. I’m sure more than a few of your readers would find the views of some (not all) of their writers and contributors neo-Catholic in foundation. Secondly, while there may be better choices (e.g. Cruz, Jindal – when he was running, etc.) in the Republican field, there are none on the Democratic side, and a third-party candidate that would be acceptable (i.e. not a Communist) would merely draw votes from the Republican nominee and help the Democrat. Whatever “Catholic Vote” has to say, and I’m sure they say a lot, they cannot deny that for folks concerned about the state of the moral order in this country we would be shooting ourselves (and by extension the Church) in the foot by aiding the Democrat nominee however it is done (including staying home on election day).

Tantumblogo - January 28, 2016

I don’t disagree that Catholic Vote is not a strongly orthodox site. Certainly not traditional. They’re spare to fair conservative-ish neo-Catholic.

5. ben - January 28, 2016

People in Florida, Ohio, and other swing states absolutely must vote R even if swine like Trump is on the ticket.

Neither Trump nor Cruz is electable. Rubio is the candidate of surrender as far as I can tell. Christie, Bush, and Kasich are surrender candidates also. Carson has proven that he isn’t serious. For those in the earliest states, I support Fiorina. She did compromise a little in California, but it is California. Give her a break. She is highly electable because she is clean and takes the woman’s issue away from Clinton. She also has not compromised much – the Dream Act. She has a different electorate in the general election – Republicans who are hopping mad about the state of the country.

Those in later states are in a real pickle. Trump, though, is the least electable candidate in the general for an enormous swathe of reasons. Trump is not even staunch on his signature issue, immigration, as the Cruz camp is making clear.

This is subtle analysis, and most people won’t appreciate it. It is definitely the best way to vote.

6. ben - January 28, 2016

Comment did not go through.

Tantumblogo - January 28, 2016

Think it’s fixed now. Thank you for letting me know.

7. Baseballmom - January 28, 2016

I am glad Catholic vote put this out. Trying to convince my very Catholic kids that Trump is not a good choice… they are just so fed up with politics as usual, and I understand that. It is just too bad it is a guy like Trump doing this, and not some faithful wealthy Catholic.

Tim - January 28, 2016

Most Catholics are Novus Ordoized. I would not trust Mr. Santorum, Mr. Bush, Mr. Christie. Our system is beyond repair and only Divine intervention will put an end to it. The Devil has done his homework and brainwashed Catholics into buying into Americanism and the condemned heresy “religious liberty. “

8. ben - January 28, 2016

Another thing. Catholic vote has pro-life democrats. One cannot be a democrat on anything and be Catholic. Not compatible. John White’s analysis was good, but not really the rest of it.

Michael Jarman - January 29, 2016

Sadly, it took me way…WAY too long to realize this. Of course, ben is completely and utterly correct.

9. Margaret Costello - January 28, 2016

I don’t see why we can’t deport the illegals. Just ask for their info when they sign their children up for free public school or ask for jobs. Every single last one of us would be deported (and rightly so) if we tried to do the same in any country. Cruz seems to be the only one who walks the talk, although he acts like a typical politico and has Bush (W’s) mannerisms.

Agree that this country is shot. And it’s a good thing. It was based on Locke’s agnostic at best philosophy. Watching it die will be a good thing. Our job is to resurrect it as a Catholic nation:+) God bless~

10. oneholyapostolic - January 29, 2016

The garish glare of Trump has cast a halo over Ted Cruz. Ted is not conservative. His is another RINO bought and paid for by Republic establishment and Wall Street. He is beholden to his masters as many pols are. Billionaire hedge fund guy Robert Mercer is his Super Pac puppet master with $11 Million of his own money in and raised over $30 million for him. His firm is under federal investigation for tax evasion of $6 billion. Might be nice to have his guy in as POTUS. 95% of money raised by Cruz has been in donations of $1 million or more. Not your grassroots kind of guy. His campaign manager was with Goldman Sachs for 10 yrs as VP and his wife is a Goldman Sachs Exec on leave. The 2 loans he “forgot” to claim were from….Goldman Sachs. While Ted was a constitutional atty advising Bush his wife was picked by to be on Council on Foreign Relations to advise on North American Community plan (That is the globalist plan of America becoming like EU and losing our sovereignty). Ted’s disingenuous nature of several rants by the then-candidate in which he called the CFR “a pit of vipers” and “a pernicious nest of snakes,” without mentioning that his wife was a 5-year member of the Council until June, 2011 as part of her job for the Bush administration. The point is not the CFR or Mrs. Cruz’ job, but rather Mr. Cruz’ theatric performance, which would have been more honest if accompanied by more information. Cruz and Rand Paul both made deal with Mitch McConnell to get Obamatrade TPP pushed through and then Ted safely claimed he voted against it after he made sure it could be passed with only 51 votes instead of 2/3 majority. Again he puts on a stellar performance of now railing against Obamatrade. The Republican establishment Super Pac out of KY (Mitch McConnell’s boys) just bought millions of radio and tv ads for Cruz against Trump. Be aware. There may be more than 1 Trojan Horse in this race.

11. Comrade (@2piccioni) - January 29, 2016

I got the email…and I didn’t like it. I resented them going off on Trump. He is my pick. From the get go.

I like Cruz, but he will never get it. Trump is actually deflecting- or absorbing the beatdown that would be directed towards Cruz if Trump were not in the picture. Also- Cruz looks like a snake oil salesman, and sounds like the worst imitation of a candidate whipping up supporters. He just ain’t got it….I, too, like his stand, and the way he stood on the senate floor and against his cronies, and stood for the bills that McConnell & Co caved on. The only one near the top of the heap that is presentable is Rubio, but he is weak. Cruz definitely has the steel. But he will never be accepted or warmed up to, I don’t think. He’s a great senator. All the emails I get from him are pleading for $$. I am so tired of them- from candidates & organizations. They use an infuriating headline to get you upset then go right into begging for money, the only solution. I would appreciate informative emails explaining a current situation.

From ‘Catholic Vote’ I would expect advise on Catholic issues and where a candidate stands on them. This was simply an all out basheroo….
I wrote back to them & I unsubscribed.
Unfortunately- the Republican party is once again grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. This election should be ours… but the madcap circus going on is not Donald Trump’s doing, although he may be the main event. It is is in meltdown. While Obama looks on with pride and satisfaction. He is largely responsible, using his position as president, for the destruction of the republican party. Not to say the repubs were blameless, but they were clueless.

12. Branch - January 29, 2016

I think a vote not for Trump (if he is the candidate) is a vote for Hillary, and I think that’s very foolish.

13. guy Mcclung - January 31, 2016

Ben and Michael Jarman are spot on. Since 2007 I have been trying to spread the word that for a catholic with a wellformed conscience to vote for ANY democrat is a mortal sin. Lately I have been trying to spread the word that the reverberating silence of theologians on RETA is because most of the visible theologians who speak and write about the “theological silence” on racism are afraid of the impact of spreading the truth about RETA – racially eugenic targeted abortions – on the future of democrat candidates. The liberal theologians, who yell about the theological silence on racism are silent on RETA because they do not want to reduce the vote for democrats. If these theologians pursued their assertions to their logical conclusions, it would be that voting for any member of The Party of Death is a mortal sin.Guy McClung, San Antonio Texas USA

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