Capital punishment – consistent with dignity for life March 6, 2015
Posted by Tantumblogo in awesomeness, Basics, catachesis, Flightline Friday, fun, General Catholic, Interior Life, Papa, scandals, secularism, Society.trackback
Capital punishment is one of many matters when chaos reigns in the minds of even faithful Catholics trying to understand what the Church believes and requires. It’s really very simple – the Church knows the state has the power of the sword, including the taking of life in both war and peace. Recent pronouncements even by popes cannot change this fact. Popes may argue that there are now means to avoid capital punishment, but that doesn’t even come close to saying that it is immoral for the state to take a life. Nor does it say souls cannot support capitol punishment.
In fact, growing Church opposition towards, or concern over, capital punishment, even at the highest levels, could be another sign of the steady invasion of worldliness into the Church. To someone who believes this life is the be all and end all of existence, it seems a terrible thing, an impermissible thing, to take another life, no matter what. But to one who views this life as just a brief interlude prior to our eternal destiny in Heaven or hell, offering a soul a way to expiate for the enormous sin he has committed in taking a life by willingly offering his own in return (in cooperation with Grace, of course) could be the factor that results in a damned soul be converted and saved, or quickens its flight to Heaven.
I thought the priest provided a lot of good review, and raised a couple of considerations I had not entertained before:
After listening to the above (and I did not listen to it all, I fell asleep last night and did not have time today!), one thing I thought was: the window opened at VII sure must have been a big one.
And it’s your lucky day, no Flightline Friday today:
Sucker! There’ll always be a Flightline Friday. Bwahaahaahaaaaa!
10 Mk 12A multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles descending on the Kwajalein Test Range. 500 kt each.
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I have often wondered how the Church could become so radically opposed to capital punishment when it was the means through which Salvation came to us. Jesus Christ was THE MOST INNOCENT recipient of this punishment, yet he accepted and even embraced it. And He did not spare the two thieves, but said to the repentant one : “This day you shall be with Me in Paradise.” Is that not the goal for every one of us?
Sorry, but I do not think this is a very good argument at all…
Again, I agree with you, Camper.
I believe that Rome’s weakest argument against capital punishment is the following statement:
“Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm – without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself – the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”
I just did a Google News search on murderers who have escaped from prison. It is amazing as to how many people convicted on murder charges have escaped from jails, prisons and police custody.
That is just in America.
Consider that countries much poorer economically than America often have prison systems that are less secure and more corrupt than America’s prison system.
I just found the following TV report from Miami. These are prisoners — murders, rapists and additional very dangerous folks — who have escaped from Miami Dade County law enforcement custody.
This is chilling. The following escapees are on the loose…including one convicted of murder and one wanted in connection to a murder.
http://www.local10.com/news/police-looking-for-convicted-rapist-escapee-in-south-florida/31659740
Pax.
Steve
On traditioninaction.org there is the argument that execution is MERCIFUL in the case of hardened criminals because it prevents them from suffering even more for the extra crimes they would have committed had they been allowed to live. Take that, JPII!
Besides, only a sad sop of a man would take real pity on a murderer or a rapist. Ecclesiastical clemency is one thing, but pity on these folks is another case altogether.
A different angle on this is the case of execution for virtually any drug crime, which is the statute on the books (IIRC) in half a dozen nations of SE Asia, including Singapore, where any official malfeasance used to be punishable by execution. Boom, these countries have much less of a drug problem than they would have otherwise, and Singapore went from having a pretty seemy population to being one of the least corrupt countries on earth. I think that Singapore was right to do this, and that the nations of SE Asia are well within their bounds to execute for drug crimes as well.
Re: traditioninaction.org, I’m referring to the possibility of criminals suffering in hell extra for their crimes. Not sure if that was obvious.
Rome offers a weak argument in that the state can protect society from murderers to the point that the death penalty is virtually unnecessary.
That, however, does not mean necessarily that I, for example, should discard Rome’s desire to perhaps consign capital punishment to history.
I think about innocent people who have been put to death by the state.
As often as innocent Americans are railroaded by law enforcement agencies, I cringe as I consider the massive corruption in various countries as states put to death many innocent people.
As bad as it can be in America, for example, I cringe at the brutal and corrupt “justice” systems throughout the Middle East, Asia…
People are put to death for rejecting certain religions.
Capital punishment is abused in so many places…in so many ways.
I will keep my heart and mind open to consider our Churchmen’s arguments against capital punishment.
Pax.
Steve
I seem to be looking at this from a very different perspective than I’ve seen so far.
Here: http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/2015/03/i-am-
against-death-penalty.html
In Christ,
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
Dear Julie,
Your perspective on the death penalty was interesting. I disagree with your positive assessments of chain gangs and harsh prison conditions.
But many additional ideas that you offered are interesting.
By the way, the link that you had provided failed to work. Here is the link that I used to read your post about the death penalty:
http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/2015/03/i-am-against-death-penalty.html
I have visited your blog several times via the link on this page. I have disagreed with some posts…such as the SSPX being in schism.
But do you recall your old post about how Saint Peter spurred you to love Pope Francis? That was/is a tremendous, tremendous post. An amazing post from you. Thank you for that.
Again…you offered several interesting thoughts about the death penalty.
I am thankful that Tantumblogo linked your blog. I appreciate your attachment to and promotion of Holy Mother Church and Holy Tradition.
Pax.
Steve
Thank you Steve. I am glad you enjoyed my story about Saint Peter and Pope Francis – it was a difficult road for me. While I often don’t understand this pope, I do love him for the reasons stated in that article.
God bless!
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
Julie, you are mistaken. Please read Fr. Rutler’s piece on the DP:
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2013/hanging-concentrates-the-mind
I am guessing from your comment H-town that you didn’t actually read my article.
Yes, I read it. Did you read Fr. Rutler?
Julie, when it comes to understanding Pope Francis (or any Pope), it’s good to recall your remarks toward the end of your article in question.
“Saint Peter was not perfect. His ways were not always the Lord’s ways…as scripture shows us. But in the end, Peter did all Christ called him to do. He was a sinner who became a Saint. He was a fisherman who became a fisher of men. A simple man who was called to be pope.”
That pretty must applies to each of us.. We sin. We make mistakes.
Pope Francis has identified himself as a sinner who has made many mistakes as Pope/Cardinal/bishop/priest/man.
If any of us became Pope, we would never please all the Catholics all the time…to borrow a bit from Mr. Lincoln.
Take, for example, the topic of this thread. Pope Francis hasn’t pleased Catholics who support capital punishment. But he remains our Pope.
Anybody who would harbor ill will toward Pope Francis over this or that statement or action of his would do well to read your outstanding post about coming around to Pope Francis.
Julie, again…thank you for such a beautiful and uplifting post.
Pax.
Steve
Again, thank you for the kind words.
God bless. 🙂
It looks like the link is broken.
The link to CT Catholic Corner, that is.