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Has Church Doctrine changed on no salvation outside the Church? November 9, 2011

Posted by Tantumblogo in Basics, Dallas Diocese, disaster, Ecumenism, foolishness, General Catholic, Interior Life, Papa, sadness, scandals.
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There’s a post over at catholicism.org, a site associated with a group that supports strongly the proposition of extra ecclesiam nulla salus, which examines whether certain statements in Vatican II documents, and in some papal statements, etc., which have seemingly ‘softened’ the Church’s position on the prospects of salvation for those outside the Church, really constitute a change or not.  It’s a long article, too long go into depth here, I’d just suggest reading it and pondering it.  The beginning is thus:

The exclusive doctrine of “no salvation outside the Church” has been reduced to a liberal inclusiveness that offers the hope of salvation to anyone, of any religion or no religion, who, as Dr. David VanDrunen puts it, “sincerely follows the truth and goodness that they know in their own experience.” Tom Brown will try to prove in his article that the doctrine of “no salvation outside the Church” has not been changed by the Church, but it has been “developed.” Developed? Well, it can hardly be denied that the inclusivist soteriological speculations of one of our holy father’s teachers, Karl Rahner, S.J., were manifest in Vatican II’s Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium). Rahner will always be known for so thoroughly demolishing the Church’s salvation doctrine, with his heresy of “the Anonymous Christian,” that in the end, even someone who denies Christ can be saved “in Christ” because “existentially [he] is committed to those values which for the Christian are concretized in God.”

VanDrunen’s evaluation — his personal observation, that is — is similar to the warnings that Saint Benedict Center had been making since the 1940s. From one loophole, many will be spawned — salvation can be achieved from explicit baptism of desire to implicit baptism of desire, from implicit baptism of desire to explicit rejection of Christ and baptism, from rejection of Christ to the implicit “anonymous Christian” who espouses explicit atheism. There you have it: inclusivity to the total exclusion of exclusivity.

The piece at catholicism.org is based on a post on the same topic at Called to Communion: Reformation Meets Rome.  That original, written by Tom Brown, takes to task an “orthodox Presbyterian” (oxymorons are fun!) who says the Church has changed its Doctrine.  I like this citation that came from Brown’s piece:

Regarding those inculpably ignorant of the gospel (only God knows if there are such non-handicapped adults): Vatican II teaching on the salvation doctrine in Lumen Gentium can with difficulty be interpreted in an orthodox sense if by the term “grace” one understands “sanctifying grace,” which cannot illumine a soul attached to false religion. With sanctifying grace are the three theological virtues of Faith, Hope, and Charity. In an unbaptized adult, Faith is the beginning  of justification. Scripture and tradition are clear (and St. Thomas teaches) that, after the Incarnation and Pentecost, for an act of Faith to be “pleasing to God” (Heb 11:6) it must be an explicit belief in the Trinity and the Incarnation. That is why it is necessary to send missionaries to preach. “Faith cometh by hearing.” (Romans 10:17)

Anyways, I found it to be very interesting.  My own belief in Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus is very strong.  I fear for those who are not in visible union with the Church. I pray for them, alot.  That includes the roughly 90% of American Catholics who reject some part(s) of Church Doctrine. 

I hope my friends Steve B and Larry B (no relation), and other reader like Catechist Kevin and Simon would appreciate this topic.  Please feel free to post any comments.

Comments

1. Tom Brown - November 10, 2011

Like you, dear author, my belief in extra Ecclesiam nulla salus is very strong. It is a matter of faith. I too fear for those not in a state of grace with the Church, which motivates me to the work we do at Called to Communion, a work to teach Reformed (Calvinist) persons about the Catholic faith.

I would simply like to observe two points:

First, I did not identify VanDrunen as an “orthodox Presbyterian,” but as a “minister in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church” (a proper name of an ecclesial community, so properly capitalized). I do not believe his beliefs are orthodox vis-a-vis Christianity and Holy Mother Church, and do not wish to opine whether his beliefs are orthodox with respect to Presbyterianism.

Second, the way you have it quoted appears as if the text beginning with “Regarding those inculpably ignorant…” is taken from something I have written. Without wishing to approve or disapprove of this quotation, I note that it is not my writing.

Peace in Christ,
Tom B.

tantamergo - November 10, 2011

Mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa

Good clarifications, thanks.

God bless you!

2. Catechist Kevin - November 10, 2011

Oh boy.

I am not a theologian, Tantam. Being a catechist I my job is to “echo back” what the Church teaches (that echoing back is the root word for “catechist, catechism, catechesis” – i.e. katechezio (sp?)). (see John 7:16, “My teaching is not my own, but the One who sent Me.”)

I have been studying this topic the last few months.
Fr. Peter Stravinskas has an interesting take on it.

See it here:

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=4085

The Catechism in sections 846-848 does quote Lumen Gentium quite often.

847 says:

This affirmation (“…the Church, is necessary for salvation…” 848) is not aimed at those, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God witha sincere heart, and, moved by grace try in their actions to do his will as they know it throw the dictates of their conscience-those to may achive eternal salvation. (LG 16; cf. DS 3866-3872)

——–

Unfortunately, I cannot find an online source for Denzinger’s Sources of Catholic Dogma – I would like to read numbers 3866 and following as cited from the above citation from 847.

To me, what this has led to (the possibility of salvation for those not within the visible confines of the Church) – in the minds of *many* Catholics I have encountered – is the sin of indifferentism. So many Catholics – even clergy – have the mindset that “It doesn’t matter what Church (Christian) you belong to, just as long as you love Jesus.” (Ugh!) [This has even led to the thinking that it does not matter what *religion* you belong to. Good grief.]

This is why, in my opinion, number 848 from the Catechism stresses the need for evangelization – but what Catholic, in your average parish, has heard a sermon on that topic the last 40+ years?

[huge sigh]

I don’t know. There is much confusion on this topic. Hopefully, as Bp. Schneider has called for, Rome will produce a “Syllabus of errors in the interpretation of Vatican Council II”….and soon.

Catechist Kevin

3. Catechist Kevin - November 10, 2011

Sorry!

I said: “This affirmation (“…the Church, is necessary for salvation…” 848).”

It should have read *846* not 848.

My apologies.

Catechist Kevin

4. Larry Bednarz - November 11, 2011

Great topic. The range of understanding regarding this dogma among the Church laity seems to be all over the place. Some individuals who are close to me were told by others that they don’t agree with the Church that no one outside Her will be lost because they KNOW that they are saved along with their Aunt Betsy. One of these persons making such a statement is a convert from a Baptist tradition and the other is a cradle Catholic.

On the other hand, I have heard others say that you have to be a card carrying member to be saved. When I pressed them with Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood, they seemed not to be as rigid in their understanding.

Of course, we are only saved through Jesus. His Church is His Body. The Church is one with Christ according to CCC 795. If Jesus is necessary for salvation, then so is the Church.

In the Church, we have all the necessary means to obtain our heavenly reward. Those who are not Catholic are at a clear disadvantage; however, they still may be saved through the Church as long as they are responding to the grace and light that God gives them.

A few quotes of note:

Blessed Pius IX. “By faith it is to be held that outside the apostolic Roman Church no one can achieve salvation.”

St Pius X “Pope St. Pius X
Catechism of Christian Doctrine

“29 Q. But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved?
A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God’s will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation”

Vatican II – Lumen Gentium. “The Church now journeying on earth as an exile is necessary for salvation. Therefore, whosoever knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by God would refuse to enter Her or remain in Her could not be saved”

We should pray daily for the return of all our loved ones who have left the Church.

Larry B.

5. Steve B - November 12, 2011

Yet another excellent post, Tantamergo!

Sorry I haven’t commented sooner….

It would be quite illuminating to see paragraphs 3866-3872 from Densinger, to get a solid basis for what the Church has traditionally taught on this subject. Unfortunately, I don’t have that either.

However, I just can’t quite get my brain to resolve the seemly paradox between what is stated in official Church teaching before & after Vatican II. Certainly, as your other commenters have stated, some/many Catholics today actually believe that the Church has “changed” her teaching wrt Salvation.

Both the Catechism (paragraph 846) and in LG 16 ultimately teach that a person who doesn’t even believe in Christ (apparently, as long as they are invincibly ignorant) might someway/somehow just possibly still be considered “in the Church”.

But, that sounds an awful lot like how the heterodox theologican Karl Rahner defined his “anonymous Christian”, no?

The Church has traditionally taught that ALL of the 3 Theological virtues are required for Salvation (faith, hope, and charity). So, how can one possibly be “in the Church” and yet not even have faith in the One, True, God???

Perhaps, we can resolve the paradox by being mindful that “possible” membership in the Church merely puts one’s chances for Salvation in the theoretical category. The “likelihood” of such a person’s membership in the Church may, nonetheless, be incredibly and infinitesimally small.

Without God’s normal means of conveying His Truth and Grace (the teachings of His Church and the Sacraments), the chances of a person getting to Heaven are remote, at best – thus, there is an imperative for the Church to evangelize to the world (Christ’s final command to the Apostles in St. Matthew’s Gospel – Matt. 28:19), to present those normal means of Salvation to as many as humanly possible….

Nonetheless, a “syllabus” for clarifying the documents of Vatican II can’t come soon enough! Maybe we need to start praying for that to actually happen???

Pax et benedictiones tibi, per Christum Dominum nostrum,

Steve B
Plano, TX


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