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With 6 Bishops and One Cardinal, is it Really “Schism Rising?” January 17, 2018

Posted by Tantumblogo in Basics, catachesis, different religion, episcopate, error, General Catholic, Restoration, scandals, secularism, Society, the struggle for the Church, Tradition, true leadership, Virtue.

I certainly admire Michael Matt very much, and almost always agree with him, but I think he may have gotten a bit ahead of himself when he advances, at least to a degree, the idea that the fact that 3 bishops and one cardinal (including some emeriti), as of about 10 days ago, had signed onto the statement of the 3 bishops of Kazakhstan, led by the redoubtable Bishop Athanasius Schneider, which asserted their rejection of Francis’ attempt to gut Catholic moral belief by permitting constant, regularized sacrilege through reception of the Blessed Sacrament by the divorced and civilly remarried.

Whew……..that was a run on.  Anyway, I’m all for Schneider’s statement, I’m all for the reaction, but what I am is doubtful that this will be even the beginning of some kind of generalized reaction among the hierarchy, or even the priesthood, against the apparent errors of the Franciscan porntificate (see what I did there?).

This is not the first such reaction. We’ve had the statement by priests that they would continue to teach the Church’s constant belief regarding marriage. That topped out at under 1000 priests, last time I looked, in spite of the over 400,000 active priests in ministry today.  So, about 0.25% of priests took even this minimal stand.  Likewise, the few hundred priests and theologians who signed the statement led by Dr. Joseph Shaw similarly accusing Francis of promoting heresy, probably constituting much less than one tenth of one percent of all the priests and theologians in the world today.  And there was the Dubia, which only 4 Cardinals out of well nearly 200 endorsed.

There are over 4000 active bishops in the Church today.  The fact that 7 have endorsed this effort, again, indicates a support of less than 0.2% of the hierarchy for this very necessary rebuttal toward the Bishop of Rome.

Look, once again, I personally endorse and support all these efforts, but I have been discouraged by the lack of support they receive from those with formal roles within the ecclesiastical structure.  Just as the entire traditional movement is purported to consist of perhaps 1-1.5 million people worldwide, and thus constitutes barely a tenth of one percent of the supposed 1.2 billion Catholics in the world today (but since the number of actual, active, believing Catholics might be 1/10th that number, we do make up a much larger percentage of the “practical Church”), and the hierarchy has managed to, at most, successfully pigeonhole us off, I think they can just as easily keep ignoring that 0.1% or 0.2% of bishops, priests, theologians, or whatever as troublemakers, miscreants, neo-Pelagians, or whatever.  Our numbers are simply too small, on the human level, to have any kind of impact.  I think it would take something more like 60 or 70,  maybe even 150-200, bishops signing onto the Kazakhstan statement before it would start to really make waves.  Even 200 would not constitute even 5% of the episcopate, and note that this ratio does not include the number of emerati that are around today.

Realistically, traditional Catholics are about the same in number, and about as relevant, humanly speaking, as the “Old Catholics” were at the time of Vatican I.  How much influence did the Old Catholics have on the Church at Vatican I, and how much have they had since (as they have fallen into neo-liberal, pseudo-protestant heresy and even blasphemy, aping the worst of the most extreme progressive sects)?  God forbid the same should happen to traditional Catholics. I don’t believe it will.

I bring all this up not to be a pessimist but to inject some realism into the discussion.  I have promoted every one of these actions – the priest’s statement of adherence to the Church’s moral doctrine, the filial correction, the dubia, and now this statement from Kazakhstan.  I am happy to do so.  Indeed, nothing would make me happier – in a sense – than to wake up tomorrow and read that 500 bishops had signed onto this new “Athanasian Creed.”  At the same time, however, I think we need to be realistic, and not develop unfounded hopes.  In addition, while the Truth and justice, I think, demand such firm correction from bishops and cardinals against any error taught in the Church from any source, I also recognize that the process of exposing the error and excising it from the Church could be incredibly painful – though surely, in every respect, the right, just, and necessary thing to do (like a painful and difficult operation, necessary to save a life, but something no one looks forward to).

I also know we need things to talk about, and that folks need encouragement from time to time.  So I don’t take too much issue with the argument forwarded by Matt, I just wouldn’t stake a great deal of hope on it.


1. Baseballmom - January 18, 2018

In that video from Rome the rather overweight Cardinal who first spoke sent my gaydar screaming….

Tim - January 20, 2018

“gaydar”….great term!

2. tg - January 20, 2018

I agree with you.

3. Pat O'Brien - January 20, 2018

I agree with your assessment of the likelihood of a schism. Slim chance. But the ranks of the sedevacantists are going to grow, as are the numbers of those who just forget about the Church and leave.

4. cahermuckee - January 20, 2018

What matters, of course, is not numbers. In the beginning there were but 12 Apostles in a sea of pagan unbelief and rabid Pharisaical Judaism who no doubt counted those Apostles as schismatics,

Again, numbers do not matter. Who matters is God.

I pray God publicly rebuke them everyone, the ignorant, the malicious, and the cowardly who allow Almighty God, the Blessed Mother, and the Doctrine of the Holy Catholic Church to be mocked, manipulated, warped, and distorted in such a manner as to substitute man for God.

I pray they be rebuked not that they perish in Hell, but that in rebuking them, God grant them the opportunity to be saved.

Hebrews 12:6 “For whom the Lord loveth, he chastiseth; and he scourgeth every son whom he receiveth….”

Revelation 3:19 “Such as I love, I rebuke and chastise. Be zealous therefore, and do penance….”

Gather your willing Dubia Cardinals, Bishops, and priests together, Cardinal Müller, Bishop Schneider, et. al. however few there be, and have just 1 public Mass offered for that intention, i.e. a public call for God to rebuke those who insult God’s Majesty and the Bride of Christ, as an act of Mercy that they might repent.

Offer that 1 Mass on March 19, 2018, the Feast of St. Joseph the Protector of the Universal Church and the 5th anniversary of Francis’ installation.

Have Faith in God.

5. SimpleSimon - January 20, 2018

It is not the numbers that matter. It is only those who stand for Truth and those who deny it that will count. Pope Benedict XVI was never more correct when he said the Church is going to be much smaller.

6. TLM - January 21, 2018

‘much smaller’……like minuscule seems more like it. I agree that 6 bishops and 1 cardinal a ‘schism’ do not make. But….there may be more that are not yet speaking out. God give them the courage to do so!! I am also wondering if the real ‘schism’ may come if Francis decides to do something that some of us just cannot adhere to. It seems that he is actively trying to cause a schism. He himself said that ‘history may show that he will be the one to split the Church.’ Possible ‘ecumenical’ invalid Masses we keep hearing about, reinterpretation of Humanae Vitae, a vow of loyalty to be taken by clergy to HIM and HIS MAGISTERIUM, etc, etc…..so many ‘initiatives’ rumored about. I just keep praying…

7. Aqua - January 21, 2018

In Josephus’ history of the Jewish nation, Jesus gets one little paragraph, with a brief reference to the Christian religion that was born of Him. One paragraph out of 800 pages of Jewish history. Yet, who remembers the rest of the book? Who remembers the “man” and His Church, in that brief passing reference?

Civilization turned, but it was not brave, bold acts of Kings, Pharisees and Caesars who turned it. An asterisk to history in a forlorn corner of the world did that. The “asterisk” was abandoned by everyone at His end, yet He turned history on a dime from old ways to new.

It is not for us to change the world or resolve schisms. The history of God is that He works through the simple, the small, the forgotten, the weak, the “forlorn hope”, (eg: the walls of Jericho, Gideon). We simply choose our side and trust in Him; act as we can. Blow our tiny little trumpets, and the walls WILL come tumbling down. God prefers small numbers, it seems, to enhance His own glory of ultimate victory.

The “asterisk”, it turns out, is Lord of the universe, the still small voice, the whisper in the wind; and not intimidated at all by plots, schemes, betrayals. It is His story. The grass withers and God remains.

8. The Kurgan - January 21, 2018

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Numbers is NOT how it works.
It only took 11 to change the world.
We are TOLD the vast majority take the wide and wrong road.
Why are you fretting?
Keep swinging the sword and your shield up.
That is all.

9. Gary Laidlaw - January 21, 2018

Finally some real numbers to put things in perspective. Thank you Dallas Blog. Today’s “Catholic” churchmen are not worried about the opinions of 1 to 1.5 million traditionalist Catholics world-wide,or the grumblings of a (relatively) few bishops and theologians. But don’t let today’s churchmen get you down. Watch and pray, folks, watch and pray, and wait cheerfully for the day when Christ puts an end to all their shenanigans. As He said: “In the world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world.” And He meant what he said.

Pat O'Brien - January 21, 2018

From today’s Epistle at Ukrainian Catholic parish, II Timothy, 3: 12- 14: “All who want to live piously in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But the wicked and imposters will go from bad to worse, erring and leading into error.”

Nothing has changed, and I did a double-take at that word “imposters.”

10. Anne M - January 21, 2018

So why haven’t you done something?

What about a rosary a day?

What about sending letters of complaint to the Vatican?

Where’s our St. Catherine of Siena?

lmgilbert - January 21, 2018

Undoubtedly, she is quietly praying, doing penance, writing letters to this pontiff as she did before in the 14th c.

Tantumblogo - January 23, 2018

Madame, I have done all of that and more, for years. Indeed, this blog is one fruit of that effort. For many years I sent letters to priests, the diocese, the Vatican, etc. I do not do so as much anymore, as I learned that my efforts were totally ignored. But I do still write from time to time, on more important matters.

As to prayer, petitions for the conversion of Francis and the restoration of the Faith have inspired numerous daily perpetual novenas, Rosaries, and many other prayers I offer. At this point I am doing all I have time to do.

11. Ademar - January 21, 2018


When are bishops going to finally publicly entertain the possibility that Bergoglio is NOT Pope, but rather that Benedict XVI still is?!!

12. yabancı dizi izle 2015 - January 22, 2018

Hd yabancı dizi Izle prison break

With 6 Bishops and One Cardinal, is it Really

13. Fr. Terry Brennan - January 22, 2018

I am a priest,and I tried to sign on but the petition process would not register my vote. I imagine there are more priests and bishops than you think that are on the right side of this debate but either did not or could not register their support. Please don’t take unofficial blog petitions as hard evidence to conclude how many clerics or lay support or do not support AL.

Tantumblogo - January 23, 2018

Oh Father, I do understand that. I know much more opposition exists (and I thank you for perusing my blog). But I still fear that opposition is either far too little, or unwilling to risk being in the open, or both. Nevertheless, I would be happy – in a sense, please understand -to be proven wrong.

I am always amazed when I find that priests read my prattlings. Thank you again for stopping by!

14. Tim - January 22, 2018

It’s funny how 6 bishops in1988 somehow caused a “schism”(FAKE NEWS) though isn’t it. Also invalid “excommunications” New Order nonsense. What a JOKE!

The true schismatics are the modernist movers and shakers who started a new religion and called it “Catholic”. There are way more than 6 of them!

Tim - January 22, 2018
15. Gail - January 22, 2018

It’s sad, but true. In my diocesan newspaper, it’s as if they’ve never heard about the challenges to AL. I talked to some people who participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, daily, but they have absolutely no clue about what is going on in the Vatican! Apparently, they do not read news about the Catholic Church online,… or if they do read online, they must be reading the liberal Catholic press…? The Cardinals and Bishops and, at least, the younger, Internet-savvy priests should know, however, about the evil emanating from the Vatican. Yet, the silence is astounding! Heaven help us.
God bless the few courageous ones, who stand up publicly for Truth. May God help more to stand up for Truth.

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