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Lack of Belief in Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus at Root of Crisis in Church November 14, 2017

Posted by Tantumblogo in awesomeness, Basics, catachesis, Christendom, Ecumenism, fightback, General Catholic, Latin Mass, manhood, Restoration, Spiritual Warfare, Tradition, true leadership, Virtue.

You either believe visible communion/right membership in the Church is vital, even required, for salvation, or you don’t.  20th century quasi-modernist formulations aside, both the vast majority of theologians/bishops/fathers/doctors and the vast majority of the laity over numerous centuries took the doctrinal declaration of “no salvation outside the Church” quite literally.  This was the understanding that fired the superhuman efforts at evangelization (even, my oh my, proselytization) the Church undertook for many long centuries, converting most of the world, at least in part.  This was the understanding that led to thousands upon thousands of martyrdoms, where Catholics refused to burn a pinch of incense to Caesar or partake in an English protestant worship service with its barren table altar and iconoclastic environment (rather like most parishes built since 1950).

Extra ecclesiam nulla salus, or rejection thereof, is one of those doctrines at the very core of the crisis in the Church.  In many respects the so-called Feeneyites were right, they were simply both a bit extreme, and a bit late, perhaps.  Had they come to the fore in 1890 instead of 1945, they might have elicited much more of a  yawn than the ecclesiastical hammer blows a hierarchy (especially an American hierarchy) seeking an accommodation with protestantism at any cost delivered.

A priest of the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest delivers a solid sermon on this vital matter below.  He is quite correct in noting the foundational role rejection of EENS has played in the past 60 odd years of Church auto-demolition:

The sermon might be more review for many readers of this nutty blog, but if you’re anything like me, it’s good to hear reminders of stuff you “already” know from time to time.  Otherwise, I tend to lose them.

AND, I think this is a topic that can’t get enough coverage.  Even among traditional Catholic priest, Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus seems to be viewed as a bit of a minefield.  Some Fraternity priests give real clear catechesis on this subject, but others wouldn’t touch it with a cane pole.  So I think it merits coverage on that point, as well.



1. Tim - November 14, 2017

EENS is either totally true or totally false.
There is no 8th Sacrament of ignorance.
The 1st Commandment is written on every human heart…..sorry, you know that you know!

Jesus came to earth and claimed to be God (which He proved), so He either God or He is not.

Modernists/liberals love to make very simple things very complicated for their own evil agenda.

2. Joseph - November 14, 2017

I’ve checked several pre-Vatican II catechisms, all Church approved, that clearly allow exceptions to official membership in the Catholic Church, albeit minimal. Why do some insist on being more exclusive than the old faith as it’d been taught for many years?

Tantumblogo - November 14, 2017

Yes there are exceptions. I do not hold a Feeney type view – if they ever really held this – that one must literally be baptized in the Church to be saved. There were obviously martyrs who desired membership in the Church who died before they could formally join, but who have been taken to be saved by the Church through her long history.

The key point should be, however, that relying on things like invincible ignorance or an invisible communion of the saved is an extremely thin thread upon which to hang one’s salvation. For clarity’s sake, noting that limited exceptions do exist, it is simply much clearer and forceful to be able to say “outside the Church there is no salvation.” As a normative, practical matter, given the state of the world today and the manifest embrace of the gravest of sins, this clear statement is much more right than it is wrong. Note, this is speaking on the practical apologetic level, not on a detailed theological level. Certainly when specific cases come up more detail can be gone into.

And I say this as someone whose entire family is outside the Church. This is the greatest heartache of my life.

Baseballmom - November 14, 2017

Genuine question here. Is not everyone who is baptized by the correct Trinitarian formula baptized into the Catholic Church? For instance, my Lutheran baptized husband was baptized “in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost” (yes, Lutherans said “Holy Ghost” in the 50’s) – in that sense, all Protestants baptized by that formula are members of the Catholic Church whether they know it or not, correct?

Tantumblogo - November 14, 2017

Yes the baptisms are valid (though SSPX often does conditional re-baptism if the formula is doubtful) BUT they cease being members of the Church when the come of the age of reason and start to accept doctrines contrary to the Faith. So when a Lutheran accepts salvation by faith alone he is tacitly excommunicating himself.

Now this can get a bit muddy when one is talking about people raised in generations of protestant households (like me) where no one has had the true faith for generations and degrees of complicity, BUT as Tim notes God’s law is written on our hearts and sort of the default position is that their salvation is doubtful at best. It depends of course on the particular beliefs and actions of the individuals, their particular sins, their level of contrition, etc., but basically the long-held mass opinion of the Church was that they are in a bad spot.

Baseballmom - November 15, 2017

Makes sense. I do often wonder about genuinely good Protestant folks who do not come into the Church (my hubs is a strange case… attends Mass weekly, helped me raise all the kids in the Faith, supports only orthodox Catholic apostolates but has not converted as he cannot accept that the Eucharist IS the Lord…) for whatever reason but live in a way most conforming to the Catholic Faith. I know they, like all of us, will receive justice and mercy. Just don’t know how….

KathyD - November 15, 2017

You are correct about the baptism; but has he entered the Catholic Church now and is he going to Mass every holyday of obligation and receiving the sacrament of confession when needed and receiving the Holy Eucharist at Mass if he is in a state of sanctifying grace? Once baptized and of the age of reason, one must accept the Truths of the Faith and live according to them as the Church is the authority for Christ and the pope is the Vicar of Christ.

Joseph - November 15, 2017

I can’t disagree with anything you’ve said, and my entire family is either Protestant or non-practicing. (That’s why I checked all those catechisms.) We’ll just keep praying for them, bro. Thanks for the explanation.

Tim - November 14, 2017

Modernists have been around much longer than the 1960’s.

3. Tim - November 14, 2017

4. Tim - November 15, 2017

Minefield or not, it is the truth. Why are we so afraid to speak and defend truth? Christ told us that if they persecute Me they will persecute you. Truth is truth no matter our comfort level. There will be no level of comfort for anyone in Hell. So we can indulge in worldly Novus Ordo fantasy and have all of our “friends and family” on “comfortable terms” and pretend the elephant is not in the room or we can be charitable toward these nonbelievers and engage them and pray for them while risking their “displeasure”. Christ did that as an example for us and paid the ultimate price for it. Do we have the unmitigated gall to not do the same? So we just dance around the truth we can have standing in the parish, community, whatever? Be careful…….eternity is a long, long time.

5. Richard Malcolm - November 15, 2017

I won’t dispute the point about EENS, but I think the failure goes even deeper. I sincerely wonder how many even believe in the Four Last Things.

Tim - November 15, 2017

Excellent point……most “Catholics” don’t believe in the 4 Last Things. Thanks for opening the doors to the world Pope John XXIII!

Ahhhhh, the new pentecost of V2 and the Novus Ordo! It’s been a smashing success(for the kingdom of Satan).

SoccerMom - November 16, 2017

I agree, the EENS doctrine is sort of lost on a world full of “Catholics” who don’t seem to believe in the last four things in the first place. Sadly.

I wonder what percentage even believe in a personal God and would care whether they were with or without Him for all eternity.

6. Tim - November 15, 2017

“He who believes and is baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16).

7. Tim - November 15, 2017
8. Ed of CT - November 15, 2017

Look at Baron cino Bishop who thinks 98 percent of Every one goes to heaven.. Or the clowns at the Vatican with a stamp and statue for Martin Luther.. Then.the same clowns in Ct. Us , the Jesuits and the Vatican cino clergy cannot figure out the nose dive in Church weekly mass going church marriages and infant baptism and vocations of clergy . Go figure

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10. Numbskull - November 15, 2017

How can it be reconciled that the Church essentially changed its teaching on EENS?

Tim - November 15, 2017

It can’t be, it is a thrice defined DOGMA, meaning you must believe it to be saved. PERIOD.

11. Tim - November 15, 2017

“readers of this nutty blog”…………..I’m honored!!

12. Tim - November 15, 2017

Tim - November 17, 2017

Oooooooooooops……..This was supposed to be posted on the Trump Matters thread. Aging is apparently catching up to me more and more!

13. Tim - November 16, 2017

14. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus - News for Catholics - November 17, 2017

[…] SOURCE: https://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/lack-of-belief-in-extra-ecclesiam-nulla-salus-at-ro… […]

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