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Latin Mass at St. Mark TERMINATED September 10, 2013

Posted by Tantumblogo in Basics, Dallas Diocese, episcopate, General Catholic, Latin Mass, Liturgy, North Deanery, sadness, scandals, Tradition, Virtue.
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Father Hopka informed those assisting at Mass last night that the “experiment” of the Novus Ordo Latin Mass at St. Mark will be terminated two weeks from now.  The final Mass, a “High” Mass, will be on Monday, Sept. 23.  There had been warnings that the Mass would be cancelled if attendance (which averaged around 35 or 40 a night, if you count the Schola and two servers) did not improve.  It did not improve.  So, the Mass is cancelled.

I am grateful that we had the opportunity to have this “experiment” play out.  I am grateful to Fr.’s Smith and Hopka at St. Mark for agreeing to offer the Mass at Bishop Farrell’s request. I am grateful to Bishop Farrell for allowing this Mass to exist for 2 1/3 years. And I’m grateful for all who assisted at this Mass over the years, and who, I hope, gained some exposure to the liturgical benefits of the Church’s universal language.

As a sign of this gratitude, I am hoping we can have the Schola lead those assisting at the last Novus Ordo Latin Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in a Te Deum at the conclusion of the Mass.  I should have thought of this earlier, and even now, the idea is not mine.  Another priest suggested this idea to me, for which, I am also grateful, and not a little bit ashamed.

What can I say?  It was quite an experience, this “experiment.”  From the beginning, it was apparent that support for the Mass at St. Mark was diffident, at best.  There was a threat of cancellation before it even began – that’s how I found out about the Mass in the first place!  That’s hardly an auspicious start!

The Mass was little advertised, and was never listed with all the rest of the Masses in the Mass times section at the front of the bulletin.  I would suspect that, even after 2 years of existence, the vast majority of St. Mark parishioners have no idea this Latin Mass is available.  Early on, attendance was quite good, but there was that terribly unfortunate scandal/disagreement over the reception of Holy Communion, from which the Mass simply never recovered.  On top of that, during the period from fall 2011 until well into spring 2012, the Mass was very frequently cancelled, but these cancellations were never listed in the bulletin or website, so people got frustrated never knowing whether the Mass would be on, or off.  You basically had to be at the Mass every week to know what was coming.  I know a number of people who went to St. Mark on Monday night, expecting a Latin Mass, and finding nothing.  It doesn’t take many such occurrences for people to just give up on the whole thing.

So, the Mass struggled along with 35 or 40 people in attendance each night.  And that’s being pretty liberal in my counting.  There were times when there were barely 20 people there.  Thus, the reason we have been told, in the past, for the cancellation: lack of attendance.  As I’ve said here many times, anyone else requesting a Latin Mass, Novus Ordo or TLM, anywhere in the Diocese could now, very possibly, be met with a perfectly justifiable, ready-made excuse not to have one: we tried it, and it failed. No interest.  That doesn’t bode well for liturgical reform in the Diocese of Dallas, I am afraid to say.  Having said that, no one ever said what level of attendance would have kept the Mass going.  Was it 100, 80, 200, 500?!?  And how does this Latin Mass – on a Monday night! – compare with many other daily Masses in the Diocese, in terms of attendance?  I suspect it’s a little on the low side of average.  But that, apparently, was not good enough.  Unless this entire exercise was pre-determined to fail, which I don’t really believe, or maybe, want to believe.

I have to conclude, however, that this Mass has not given a fair reading of the amount of interest that exists in the Diocese for Latin in the Liturgy.  First of all, the Mass was on Monday night, probably the worst time that could have been chosen, outside of making it 2 am on a Tuesday morning or something like that.  Even daily Mass attendees don’t always go to Mass on a Monday, the day after their Sunday Mass. Secondly, as I said, the Mass was never advertised and was basically semi-secret throughout its existence.  Thirdly, I know for a fact that 15-20 people who were assisting at the Mass early on, before all the cancellations, stopped after getting frustrated with showing up and there being no Mass. Even though the Masses have been offered more regularly over the past year or so, once people get frustrated, or out of the habit of coming, I found it’s hard to get them re-energized and re-engaged.

But, even with all that, it’s a minor miracle this Mass occurred at all, given how much institutional opposition that exists against “bad, old” Latin. I do recognize that St. Mark, pastor Fr. Smith, Fr. Hopka, music director Kenton Kravig, the ushers, and others did take a good deal of time out of their normal routines and other duties to make this Mass possible for the time it has existed.  And I am very thankful and grateful for that. But it was apparent at times that even this effort (save for Mr. Kravig, who, I think, really liked this Mass and was fully committed) was conflicted.  I just repeatedly got the sense this Mass did not enjoy wholehearted support from many of those who were involved in making it happen.

And after 2+ years, that’s very much how I feel about this Mass – conflicted.  Long ago, at the third or fourth Mass, when there were still 100+ people a night, we had that terrible row over whether people could be “forced” to receive the Blessed Sacrament from the hands of a lay person.  For traditional Catholics, that is one of the most sensitive subjects possible.  At that time, I made a comment to some folks, and I think it encapsulates the entire “experiment:” you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.  You can’t “force people,” be they laity, priests, servers, whomever, to embrace Latin in the liturgy or more reverent, traditional presentations of the Liturgy if they are not motivated to do so themselves.  That was the fundamental, structural weakness of this “experiment.”

Another conflict for me – had this Mass come along in, say, early 2010, instead of mid-2011, I probably would have been much more excited and committed, myself. But when it came along, I had already been well exposed to the TLM.  And I have to admit, as nice as this Novus Ordo Latin Mass has been, it’s just not the same.  Thus, as the person whose request, I think, originally led to this Mass, I did not have the interest I would have had the timing been a bit different.  By the time this Mass came along, I was already coming to believe there were grave problems with the Novus Ordo that a mere change in language could not alleviate.  I believe that far more, today.

So, for numerous reasons, I am both sad to see this Mass terminated, but also relieved.  For one thing, it will be nice to have Monday nights back. There are also some personal matters I’d rather not discuss yet that have a bearing on what I’m about to say, but, overall, I have over the past year or more felt called or compelled to strive to only assist, within reason, at the TLM.  The Novus Ordo Latin Mass at St. Mark, and the distance involved in reaching the TLM, had kept me from going full on traddy and being TLM-only up to this point.  But with the cancellation of this Mass, and some changes in our personal situation, I think my continued involvement in the Novus Ordo, on a regular basis, is about to end.

In fact, the timing of the termination of this “experimental” Mass, and the change in our personal situation, seems rather Providential to me.  We’ll see.

Comments

1. Paul Mitchell - September 10, 2013

In my two years at St. Mark’s I only made it once to the Monday night Latin Mass. You’re not wrong that Monday night is tough; indeed, 2:00 am on Tuesday would actually be easier for me.

I also agree that it’s been a well-kept secret, so far as publicity goes.

I’ve attended the TLM as well, many times, and I agree that the ordinary form in Latin really isn’t the same. More to the point, I am rarely able to attend daily mass, and that is essentially what this was. A Latin mass that fulfilled my weekly obligation would have much greater attraction.

Still, I can’t help but feel… diminished… that mass is no longer celebrated in Latin at St. Mark’s. In the same way I felt enriched, even if I wasn’t able to attend, when it was.

I will continue to hope that the TLM, once offered every day in every Catholic parish in the world, will someday return to the north Dallas area.

2. pak152 - September 10, 2013

reminds me of when i lived in Houston (in the 90s) and the bishop at the time imposed an attendance requirement on the sole TLM then offered in that diocese. there had to be at least 100 people in attendance. and each and every Sunday someone stood at the back of the Church and counted the attendance.
from the blog post it sounds like that no marketing plan was established for this Latin Novus Ordo Mass. sad really sad. no to learn from what didn’t work

3. Steve - September 10, 2013

I had all but abandonded the Mass in question early on based upon several reasons that you noted as having led to the tremendous drop in Mass attendance.

I had returned now and then, but I knew that neither the Chancery nor parish offered scant support for the Monday night Latin Mass.

That indifference…having been consigned to a liturgical ghetto…saddened me.

I knew that the day of cancellation would arrive.

That said, as somebody who had grown up with the Traditional Latin Mass, had you told me when I was young that one day in the Latin Church that Latin and Gregorian Chant would have been driven from Latin Church parishes…

..wow! I would have said that you were beyond crazy!

It is mind-boggling that at Saint Mark’s and virtually each Dallas Diocese parish that Latin and Gregorian Chant are not to be found.

The collapse of the Latin Church continues…

The “Latin” Church?

Sorry. That should be the all-vernacular Church.

4. Steve - September 10, 2013

As far as Novus Ordo Masses are concerned, a separate “experimental” Latin Mass is not required at Saint Mark’s and elsewhere if only Bishop Farrell and the priests of the Dallas Diocese would simply uphold Vatican II and the Church’s teachings in regard to Latin and Gregorian Chant.

Vatican II teaches that “the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.”

Vatican II teaches that “steps should be taken so that the Faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.”

Vatican II teaches that Gregorian Chant is “specially suited to the Roman Liturgy” and that Gregorian Chant “should be given pride of place in liturgical services”

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal also reiterates the above teachings.

If the following men are reading my post, I ask Bishop Farrell and Latin Church priests assigned to the Dallas Diocese the following in respectful and sincere fashion:

Why do you not uphold the above-mentioned teachings that Holy Mother Church has prclaimed?

Thank you.

Pax.

tantamergo - September 10, 2013

All certainly correct in a way. But the way VII was written, it could be debated forever whether the Council really intended Latin to remain in the Mass, or whether the “but” statement after “Latin shall always be retained” trumps all that came before. As I’ve written a number of times, and as several high placed cardinals have confirmed, VII was written deliberately ambiguously, even in a contradiction to itself. I have been told just as passionately that the “but” trumps the “Latin shall be retained” statement by more progressive priests, theologians, etc. I think you’re right, Sacrosanctam Concilium is clear on Latin, but, then again, how much Latin? Is the Agnus Dei enough? How about the Sanctus?

The documents are not clear enough to ever definitively settle these matters, it all comes down to will to power and who is in charge – when conservatives are in charge, Latin gets promoted, when progressives are in charge, it’s all vernacular.

The base problem is the Council, and how it was construed. These matters will never be settled until the Council itself is clarified.

5. Woody - September 10, 2013

No wonder Fr. Smith had such a huge smile on his face this morning!

tantamergo - September 10, 2013

Interesting, I got an e-mail back from him stating he was out of town until Saturday. Convenient?

Fr. Clifford Smith - September 10, 2013

Interesting … since I have been in Illinois since Monday morning. “The truth is not in you.”

tantamergo - September 10, 2013

That’s Woody and his sense of humor. He likes playing tricks like that. Fooled me. Hope Illinois treats you well.

Woody - September 10, 2013

Did I say where Fr. Smith was with the big smile?! Why I bet he had a big smile when he responded to this blog, eh, Fr. Smith?

6. Steve - September 10, 2013

“As I’ve said here many times, anyone else requesting a Latin Mass, Novus Ordo or TLM, anywhere in the Diocese could now, very possibly, be met with a perfectly justifiable, ready-made excuse not to have one: we tried it, and it failed. No interest.

“I have to conclude, however, that this Mass has not given a fair reading of the amount of interest that exists in the Diocese for Latin in the Liturgy.”

You are correct that it would not be proper for the Diocese to guage interest in Latin Masses based upon the Monday night Latin Mass in question.

To do so would be dishonest.

Sufficient interest among Catholics (not to mention would-be converts) in the Plano/Richardson/North Dallas area exists to support an additional TLM-only parish, let alone a Sunday Novus Ordo Latin Mass at this or that parish.

7. Steve - September 10, 2013

Yes, ambiguity was applied to certain Vatican II texts.

But from the end of the Council to date, our Popes, in their addresses and official Holy See documents, have reiterated that the Roman Mass is to feature Latin and Gregorian Chant.

Holy Mother Church teaches that each Latin Church Catholic has every right and reason to expect that at Mass, he or she will encounter Gregorian Chant and Latin prayers during the Ordinary of the Mass.

We could turn to such Church documents as Musicam Sacram and Jubilate Deo, that were issued during the first few years that followed Vatican II, to demonstrate that Holy Mother Church took seriously Vatican II’s teachings that the Roman Mass must feature Latin prayers and Gregorian Chant.

If anything, the General Instruction of the Roman Missal reiterates that Latin and Gregorian Chant are to featured during Mass.

Again, it is puzzling as to why the Dallas Diocese does not embrace and promote Holy Mother Church’s liturgical teachings in regard to Latin and Gregorian Chant.

Forget about “experimental” Monday night Novus Ordo Latin Masses.

As a member of the Latin Church, when I assist at “Ordinary Form” Masses in the Dallas Diocese, I have every right and reason to expect to encounter Gregorian Chant as well as Latin prayers offered during the Ordinary of the Mass.

8. Raul De La Garza III (@raul_delagarza) - September 10, 2013

Come out to Greenville and you will note that Chant and Latin are the bread and butter of the Mass be it in English, Spanish or even entirely in Latin.

9. Steve - September 10, 2013

I realize that speaking humanly, Catholics of the Dallas Diocese (and for that matter, elsewhere) who hold fast to Holy Tradition are fighting a losing battle at one parish after another in regard to the Mass.

One parish after another promotes liturgical “lay ministeries” to the hilt.

You know…EMs, lay readers, altar girls…etc.

As numerous Churchmen have acknowledged, the Novus Ordo Mass is very much the playgound for the laity.

At certain parishes in our diocese and elsewhere, the Mass seems to exist only to serve as a showcase for liturgical ministers.

That is why it is forbidden to promote Latin prayers, Gregorian Chant, Communion administered by the clergy onto the tongues of keeling communicants, ad orientem worship, women with covered heads, altar boys to complete all-male sancturies…

…Holy Tradition is the enemy…and we who promote the above are “hateful” bad guys.

How dare we wish to hold fast to and promote that which the Latin Church has held dear for century upon century!

We are, in the human sense, fighting a losing battle at many parishes.

But as one Chancery person informed me, the reality is that Mass attedance is only in the 18-20 percent range.

Mass attendance on Holy Day of Obligation Masses that fall during weekdays is much worse than that…it’s horrific.

At just about any parish, waves of communicants bolt immediately to parking lots as they don’t have any interest to remain at Mass one second more than is necessary.

Chattering prior to and following Mass…sometimes during Mass…is the norm.

T-shirts, flip-flops, shorts and very revealing clothing are sported by more than a few folks at Mass.

By the way, should a priest insist that I have been “hateful”, I can quote from Cardinals, bishops and priests who have described the above as reality throughout the Latin Church. I have simply repeated their assessments as to the state of the Latin Church. If I have been “hateful,” than the same applies to them.

Yes, from the human point of view, we fight a losing battle at many parishes in our desire to see Holy Tradition restored at least to Holy Mass.

It is so difficult in that at least one Dallas parish refuses to kneel during Mass…and on their web site, they even inform worshipers not to genuflect.

But as Holy Mother Church’s ancient Tradition is holy and pleasing to God, He, in good time, will reverse the nonsense that has engulfed the Mass and our parishes.

Someday, in the “Latin” Church, Latin, Gregorian and Holy Tradition will return to the Mass.

From there, a strong sense of Traditional Catholic identity will flow to the Faithful. In turn, their ability to think and act in Traditional Catholic fashion will increase.

tantamergo - September 10, 2013

On not kneeling for Communion – is that Prince of Peace? Because, they don’t have kneelers, either, nor does Our Lady of Angels in Allen.

Regarding VII ambiguity and the problems with the Mass (and really, the entire Church), yes, there is mass disobedience. Local priests make a vow of obedience to the local bishop, who in turn makes a vow of obedience to the Pope. But the national conferences, another novelty, interject a huge ambiguity into those relationships, and have been great areas for the progressives to advance their revolution. Between bishop and Pope, the obedience has tended to break down. So you may have instances, like I have, where the local priest objects that he can’t install reverence or Latin in the Liturgy, because to do so would be to violate his oath of obedience to his bishop. If you mention that the bishop is not being obedience himself, you tend to get a blank stare……as I said, the entire structure has broken down.

But it’s my view that the crisis in the Church is primarily a crisis of bishops. Bishops who won’t uphold ecclesial law, the Doctrines of the Faith, liturgical standards, etc., etc. And it is ultimately the Bishop of this Diocese, who keeps the Liturgy at all his NO parishes as it is, essentially.

For instance, a local priest who wore much more traditional vestments was chastised not to do so anymore, under pain of disobedience.

RC - September 11, 2013

I came into the Church as a Latin Rite Catholic, but have all but completely abandoned it. I have not been to a Latin Rite (not TLM but OF) Mass only a couple of times in the last 2 years. I only go to Eastern Catholic Churches now. When I’m in Texas I go to OLoL but when I go back home I go to a Melkite Parish. I figure the “novus ordo” church is a sinking ship, so I’m going somewhere that’s still afloat. Out of curiosity, is it only the Latin Rite of the CC that is plagued with hideous liturgy?

tantamergo - September 11, 2013

Not entirely. The revolutionaries have fun with some of the Eastern Rites, like the Syro-Malabar and some others. Even the Maronite Rite is somewhat affected, but not nearly so much.

10. Scott Woltze - September 10, 2013

Monday’s a tough night even for die-hards. When I was a parishioner at St. Josaphat’s in Detroit, they started offering a low mass Monday nights, and I never even made it a single time. But I never missed the Sunday missa cantata…even during snow storms.

11. Steve - September 10, 2013

Yes, Prince of Peace.

Our Lady of Angels and Prince of Peace were constructed during Bishop Grahmann’s reign in Dallas.

It is unfortunate that he permitted the construction of Latin Rite churches that were devoid of kneelers.

Prince of Peace explains as to why they neither kneel during Mass nor genuflect when entering and leaving the church.

http://www.popplano.org/index.cfm?load=page&page=313

Very sad.

But to their credit, Prince of Peace was the only Plano/Richardson area parish that I found last Saturday who conducted a public prayer vigil (noon to 4:30 p.m.) in support of Pope Francis’ peace initiative.

They promoted the Pope’s peace vigil on the parish web site.

They blasted emails to their parishoners to exort the Faithful to pray and fast as per Pope Francis’ request.

Good for them. They cared.

Woody - September 11, 2013

So to genuflect is a sign of adoration to the Blessed Sacrament which is reserved in the Eucharistic Chapel. Is the Blessed Sacrament different at the altar during Mass?

TG - September 11, 2013

I went to Prince of Peace’s website. The conclusion I got was that there is no tabernacle in the church but in the adoration chapel. So you would be geneflucting to no one. Do they not keep concecrated hosts in the church altar? They claim to have no space for kneelers. I’ve gone to a tiny church in Rogers, which has kneelers. They are attached to the chairs in back – kind of cute.

TG - September 11, 2013

I saw the picture of the church. It seems big enough to have kneelers to me.

tantamergo - September 11, 2013

It’s not an Adoration chapel. It’s an Adoration closet. You can’t fit 8 people in there. 3 or 4 is the most that is even reasonable.

I agree, when a Church does not have a tabernacle on or behind the altar, I do not know where to look, genuflect, or anything. Truly upsetting.

Chris - September 11, 2013

Thanks for the link to POP about the kneelers, Steve.

Concerning Syria and our Holy Father’s vigil, Fr Bradley at St Elizabeth Ann Seton mentioned this after every daily Mass leading up to Sat and encouraged everyone to pray and fast as per the Holy Father’s request.

At Daily Mass on Saturday morning, he made an announcement before and after Mass about this, as well as during the Universal Prayers (he has included an intention for Syria for many, many weeks).

After confessions on Saturday, he had penitents say a prayer for Syria.

Seton also blasted emails to all the Faithful concerning this.

Duly noted that no public prayer vigil was scheduled — at least as far as I’m aware. Still, it could hardly be said that Seton and Fr Bradley didn’t care about this.

There is more to a parish than its virtual presence online.

Did you attend Prince of Peace’s prayer vigil?

KathiBee - September 12, 2013

In mild defense of Our Lady of Angels (we were charter parishioners & there 8.5 years before parting — ironically the final straw being over the issue of kneelers we were wiling to use my husband’s bonus money to pay for) — “eventually” they plan to have kneelers when they have an actual church. They call their current church a “worship center” and the long term plan is that it would most likely be a social hall when an actual church is built.

However, things there have been financially iffy for awhile, so I do wonder if they will ever be able to finance a church. 13 years a parish & they only have about 1300 families — In this area where you have St. Marks @ 9,500+ families, and the other area parishes with 4-6000 & possibly more registered families.

I often think, “if the Diocese could just make it a TLM-only parish…..”. I would imagine 1300 TLM-type families would dig down in their pockets to build a beautiful church. With kneelers.

12. Steve - September 10, 2013

I hope that I didn’t misread your post. You mean Bishop Farrell has prevented a priest from adding Latin and reverence to the Mass?

And Bishop Farrell will not permit a priest to wear more traditional vestments?

I apologize if I failed to comprehend your post.

tantamergo - September 10, 2013

By reverence I mean something like Ad Orientem. And, yes, I have been told that such a thing would have to be approved by “the Diocese,” which I take to mean the Bishop.

Certainly, Bishop Farrell remains on record as arrogating to himself the right to determine any Latin Masses in the Diocese, Novus Ordo or TLM. That is a matter of public record.

Yes, a young priest was made to stop wearing vestments viewed as too traditional.

Woody - September 11, 2013

Was that the priest who started at St. Marks a couple of years ago and is now at PoP? I forget his name but when he first came to SM he wore traditional priest’s clothing.

13. Steve - September 10, 2013

I recall Bishop Farrell’s statement when Summorum Pontificum was issued. I found his declaration difficult to reconcile to said document.

Oh, well. I guess that the Dallas Diocese will remain a liturgical wasteland.

What baffles me is that we have so many bishops and priests who had grow up with the Traditional Roman Mass but despise the very Mass that fed and formed them during their early years.

They despise the Latin Church’s liturgical tradition.

That baffles and saddens me beyong belief.

Woody - September 11, 2013

Welcome to the club!

14. Raul De La Garza III - September 11, 2013

Oh, and about this termination of the Latin Mass at St. Marks’…

15. John - September 11, 2013

Thats horrible news for you folks in Dallas.

Although its a Latin version of the Paul VI mass, I bet its still more reverant than the “tambourine rock-out, worship of self” Masses we have in some of the Hispanic areas on East Austin.

I’ve heard good things about the Mater Dei parish you have up there (FSSP)? I’d be REALLY excited to have an FSSP parish in Austin!

16. John - September 11, 2013

And the idea of discarding the tabernacle from the Altar….. TRULY sad. The Protestantization of the liturgy is sickening and kills the Catholic Identidy (altar girls, reserexifix, communion in hand (standing), no kneelers (WHAT!?)

17. Joseph - September 12, 2013

I live in Indianapolis and happened across this website conversation.
I often, but not exclusively, go to Mass in the Extraordinary Form (Latin/Traditional).

Reading this, and what the Pope has now done to one of the brightest, rapidly growing, and most holy Orders (Franciscans of the Immaculate), shutting down their ability to say Mass in the Extraordinary Form and removing their founder as leader, I am very very sad today.

Despair is the greatest tool of the devil.

Our Lady of Lourdes, ORA PRO NOBIS


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