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Some key Magisterial pronouncements on Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus…and a question July 16, 2013

Posted by Tantumblogo in Basics, catachesis, Four Last Things, General Catholic, Papa, secularism, Tradition, true leadership, Virtue.
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I’ve been meaning to present some of the most prime, explicit Magisterial proclamations of the Doctrine/Dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus – outside the Church there is no salvation.  I will do so below, and then present some questions the last of these raise.thCAEW3GV2

First, in 1215 at the Fourth Lateran Council, Pope Innocent III declared the following, as part of the conciliar declarations or formal definitions:

There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved.

That seems pretty cut and dried, but much would, of course, rest on one’s definition of “outside.”

But moving on, the following was declared by Pope Boniface VIII, that great but horribly mistreated Pontiff, who declared in his Bull Unam Sanctam in 1302:

We declare, say, define and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

Alright, that seems even more specific.  Declare, say, define, and pronounce – notice how specific and forceful the language was!  And by “subject to,” one can assume a formal submission to the Church, and the Truth that Church contains, is inherent in that statement.

Finally, we have the following from Pope Eugene IV in the Bull Cantate Domino from 1441:

The most Holy Roman Catholic Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics [protestants, modernist former Catholics?]and schismatics [Eastern Orthodox?] , can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the Sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.

So, there you have three statements, each more explicit than the last as they proceed in time, defining formal, visible membership in the Catholic PapstEugenChurch as being required for salvation.  These statements are marked by their clear and direct language, in contrast to so many pronouncements from the Church in the last 50 years. I also have to note that these statements stand in marked contrast to several statements of the most recent Council, some of which were pointed out in this post from yesterday.  These statements, and dozens of others from various Popes, Saints, Fathers, etc., have led me to believe, very firmly, that formal, visible membership in the Catholic Church is required for salvation, even as much as it pains me to say so, as I am the only Catholic in my family.  But that is the conclusion I have reached.

But what I wanted to discuss was Pope Eugene’s seeming……..rejection?……of baptism by desire (implicitly) or baptism by blood (explicitly).  My understanding had always been that salvation from baptism by desire and/or baptism by blood were probably quite rare, but definitely means of salvation for those outside the Church. I’m not sure how to reconcile these words from Pope Eugene with that….Doctrine?  I always thought they were Doctrines, anyways. I know Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus is a Doctrine, a Dogma even, even though it has only rarely been well taught in this country. And we all likely know that these “hard” beliefs regarding “denial” of salvatio to those outside the Faith have been essentially ignored, if not totally repudiated, by most int he Church since VII.  So, there is much confusion.

I guess one consideration is that a Bull is not as authoritative as a formal conciliar definition made by a Pope. That is about as authoritative as you can get, aside from an Ex Cathedra definition.  But still, I thought Bulls were somewhat more authoritative than encyclicals.  Certainly, that bull Cantate Domino forms part of the Magisterium – I’m not sure how to take it.

Your thoughts?

Comments

1. skeinster - July 17, 2013

I have a good article from Fidelity in ’85 on this- I’ll make you a copy.

Main point: just as we don’t proof-text with Scripture, or only read them literally, Papal statements have to be read in context and given the correct hierarchy weight.

My question on EENS (strict interpretation):
When did this go into effect?
Easter Sunday after the Harrowing of Hell?
Immediately after the miracle of Pentecost?
Think about the implications of this- the same implications the Church had to consider when the Orient and the New World were found/contacted.
IOW, the old devout Jew living in Athens, never heard of Jesus, dies the day after Pentecost and spends eternity in Hell, because EENS?
Never gotten a good answer on that one.

tantamergo - July 17, 2013

Yes, it’s confusing. When I say I accept EENS, that is with the caveats for baptism by desire and baptism by blood. We don’t know who is saved. I just thought the statements were interesting, especially as a counter to universal salvation so prevalent today.

But, then again, those Jesuits, Franciscans, and others that came to the Americas and suffered horribly to try to convert the native people didn’t operate from the assumption that those people could be saved without baptism, at least not the vast majority of them. It is possible that people can be saved, but relying on some vehicle outside visible membership in the Church is highly risky, at best.

2. dompedulla - July 17, 2013

You misinterpret alot of what you read.

Sincerely yours,

Dominic M. Pedulla MD, FACC, CNFPMC, ABVM, ACPh Interventional Cardiologist, Endovascular Diplomate, Varicose Vein Specialist, Noncontraceptive Family Planning Consultant, Family Planning Researcher Medical Director, The Oklahoma Vein and Endovascular Center (www.noveinok.com, veininfo@drpedulla.com) Executive Director, The Edith Stein Foundation (www.theedithsteinfoundation.com) 405-947-2228 (office) 405-834-7506 (cell) 405-947-2307 (FAX) pedullad@aol.com

“Concilium generale representat ecclesiam universalem, eique absolute obediendum” (General councils represent the universal Church and demand absolute obedience–pope St. Leo the Great)

tantamergo - July 17, 2013

I think the same could very well be said about you, Doctor. That’s not an argument. It’s simply yet another ad hominem from you. I’ve been more than patient. Goodbye.

3. J. - July 17, 2013

Charles Coulombe’s “Desire & Deception” is a short but worthwhile book on this topic. He comes down on the side of Fr. Feeney after examining a fair amount of historical evidence, but it’s worth reading if only for the texts he unearths.

I’m honestly uncertain how to harmonize the common belief in three baptisms (water, blood, and desire) with the many doctrinal statements to the effect that baptism is of water only. Pope Eugene especially seems to directly condemn the belief in baptism of blood. The belief that there are three baptisms, or three forms of baptism, appears to have been popularized in catechisms like the Baltimore; as far as I can tell it has no roots in any magisterial statement.

“I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins…”

tantamergo - July 17, 2013

Umm, Augustine talked about baptism by blood. As did St. John Chrysostom. It’s been around. It’s this desire business that is much more recent, but I think it’s been around a few hundred years. I’m not sure how Magisterial it is, and I don’t mean that as a knock, I mean, I really don’t know.

J. - July 17, 2013

According to Coulombe, St. Augustine made contradictory statements at different times about martyred catechumens receiving the grace of baptism without the sacrament itself, apparently because of an ambiguous statement by St. Ambrose. I don’t remember if Coulombe writes about St. John Chrysostom.

There are some parts of the Council of Trent that sound like water baptism is absolutely necessary, and other parts that seem to say that a vow to be baptized is sufficient. (But a vow is not the same thing as desire.)

In any case, you’re right that there are many difficulties here. The Fathers seem to come down largely on the side of “water baptism only” with a few making occasional statements allowing for other channels of that grace. One might hope for clarification from the Vatican, but I think we all know how unlikely that would be.

It’s worth bearing in mind that Fr. Feeney was never formally charged with heresy. The idea that there is a heresy called “Feeneyism” is a fiction created largely by American clerics.

tantamergo - July 17, 2013

and thanks for the comment!


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