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More on Fisher-More – UPDATED March 3, 2014

Posted by Tantumblogo in Basics, Dallas Diocese, episcopate, error, foolishness, General Catholic, persecution, sadness, scandals, secularism, self-serving, shocking, the return.

Heh.  Love that lede.

Anyway, Fr. Z had some important tidbits regarding the situation at Fisher-More, which has certainly been the topic de jure.

These tidbits include some comments from priests close to the situation, to which I will add comments:

A priest friend forwarded information from HIS priest friend in Dallas.  Thus, I will edit a great deal and use bullet points. These things either happened or they didn’t and can be verified one way or another:

  • In May a prof of FMC (Fisher More College) gave a talk and denied aspects of Vatican II [To my knowledge, this has occurred more than just once.  And by denied,you could take that to mean repudiated or claimed as heretical various aspects…..]
  • The FSSP priests withdrew their services at FMC some time ago. [True. Issues 1 and 2 are not unrelated]
  • Taylor Marshall, married with several children, resigned his job at FMC without another job. [Ditto]
  • At Thanksgiving, 2013, Fr. Nicholas Gruner, the suspended Fatima Priest, said Mass at FMC.  [Not sure on this, would not be surprised, not that I have a huge problem with Fr. Gruner, but he is suspended at present]
  • These things took place when the Diocese of Fort Worth was vacant.
  • “This is NOT about hatred for the TLM.”  [I think this is the key]

I think I can say with assurance that this last bit is their honest opinion.  These priests saw the direction rhetoric regarding aspects of the recent Council was headed and had to terminate their relationship.  I’m not sure who is offering Mass there, now, the Fathers of Mercy pulled out as well.

I had thought – but I could be wrong, because I cannot recall where I learned this – that TLMs were getting infrequent at Fisher-More due to lack of priests to offer them.  Or at least that they were not as regular as before.  Or maybe they got a retired priest to offer them?  It would be great if a commenter could fill in on this.

The priests in question are ones you are accustomed to hearing on AudioSancto (or used to be, in one case).  So, these are men who have sacrificed a great deal to bring the glorious TLM to others and who aren’t exactly apologists for the revolution against the Church.

I know it looks bad. Re-reading that letter from Bishop Olson a few times……..well, I pray its tone and even parts of the content are a factor of his being a new bishop, and not reflective of how he’s going to administer the Diocese of Fort Worth.  It was very impolitic.  It was wide-open to a very negative interpretation – which perhaps it intended to convey.  It reeked of the kind of harshness progressives have loved to use against faithful Catholics.

So, it could be Olson is an “enemy” of Tradition and the Traditional Latin Mass, but I would just caution folks, again, to perhaps wait until more data becomes available before reaching that conclusion.  All those – let me repeat, ALL those – I know who are truly close to the situation are saying this is not about hatred for the TLM, but about a traditional university that has gone too far into what one commenter termed “Toxic Tradition.”

In practical terms, this matter will probably be moot in a matter of months, anyways.  The college has been mismanaged to a degree that is almost certainly irrevocable.  And as I said in the comments, there aren’t more than a couple dozen on-campus students at present. Hundreds are not being affected here. That doesn’t lessen the impact on these souls, nor detract from the principle involved, but we should understand this is not like the ongoing FFI situation where a vibrant, growing order was viciously crushed.  I say this as one who really wanted this to be a good local alternative for my children, but it just doesn’t seem possible under the present leadership.

UPDATE:  I had an update, but it now appears questionable. There is a lot of confusing info out there. It is amazing how much passion there is about this college that doesn’t even have 25 students.  

Thanks, I’d rather send my kids to UT.


1. Lorra - March 3, 2014

Nicholas Gruner? Oh! The horror!

Next time be on the safe side. Get Hans Kung.

tantamergo - March 3, 2014

As I said, I don’t have so much a problem with Fr. Gruner, as the fact that he is suspended. So there was a breech just bringing him in.

His suspension may well have been unjust. Probably was. But it exists, unfortunately. And it sends a certain message.

If it happened. I don’t know for sure.

Lorra - March 3, 2014

I’m no fan of Fr. Gruner at all, but I get tired of this selective discrimination in the Church.

The problem isn’t Fr. Gruner’s suspension. The problem is that he isn’t a PC priest and he is on the wrong side. If he was one of the wild ones, they’d look the other way.

I’ll go back to the peanut gallery now.

2. Geoffrey M. - March 3, 2014

Tantamergo, please contact Fr. Gruner directly to discuss the matter. Chris Ferrara explained the question in detail from a legal perspective, some time ago.

3. Michelangelo Buonarroti - March 4, 2014

Please, someone, show me the OFFICIAL document suspending Fr. Gruner. He claims that he has never been provided one. Mr. Ferrara has covered this topic in detail.

Geoffrey M. - March 4, 2014
4. Michelangelo Buonarroti - March 4, 2014

“In May a prof of FMC (Fisher More College) gave a talk and denied aspects of Vatican II [To my knowledge, this has occurred more than just once. And by denied,you could take that to mean repudiated or claimed as heretical various aspects…..]”

I’m sorry, but I must demand specifics on this topic. You claim knowledge, so provide it. What specifically has been done that is heretical or otherwise worthy of sanction?

And, when these details are provided, please show how this requires that the TLM be forbidden.

5. Michelangelo Buonarroti - March 4, 2014

“This is NOT about hatred for the TLM.” [I think this is the key]

Well, isn’t that just swell. You see the Bishop loves the TLM, that’s why he had to ban it. Apparently, Tantamergo and his buddy, Taylor Marshall, at Mater Dei in Irving don’t like Fisher More and think it adheres to toxic tradition. So, after vague accusations, the answer is to forbid the TLM.

I guess it will just be a matter of weeks until Bishop Olson starts sending his priests for training in the TLM and has several other parishes start offering it. You see his banning of the TLM actually has nothing to do with the TLM, he actually loves it…can’t you tell.

tantamergo - March 4, 2014

What is wrong with you? I didn’t make that statement up, if you have a problem, you’re problem is with the FSSP priests who said it. No, I won’t tell you who they are.

As for Taylor being my buddy, actually, he thinks I’m a bit harsh and maybe even extreme. I think this is the first time he’s ever commented here. You are casting me as a liberal or a dupe and you have no idea what you are saying.

I’ve had enough of you. Banned.

6. Don - March 4, 2014

I do not believe that Fr. Gruner is suspended. And we need the Consecration of Russia more than ever. Otherwise the promise made by Mary was a false one, which it is not. Since there has been no conversion of Russia to the true Faith it is obvious that things will continue to spin downwards until some Pope does what Our Lady asked be done and consecrates Russia to her Immaculate Heart.

RC - March 4, 2014

This is a side note about the consecration to Russia (sorry!). I am skeptical that it has happened.
I was speaking with a Russian convert to Catholicism on Saturday and she told me that the “persecution” of Catholicism in Russia is not coming so much from the government, but from the Russian Orthodox Church. To me, if the consecration of Russia actually happened in the 1980’s, then Russia should be Catholic (in union with Peter). When the Virgin Mary appeared to St. Juan Diego, 7 million were converted in 10 years, here we are 30 years after the “consecration” and Russia still has a very very small Catholic population and the world seems to be in a tailspin, there’s only so long you can stick your head in the sand about it.

Back on topic, I’m on the fence about this FMC business, but I by-and-large completely agree with you Tantam. And I think it is interesting that such a small school has generated so much attention, kind of like the FFI.

tantamergo - March 4, 2014

Well, the FFIs are huge by comparison, and the number of souls affected differed by several orders of magnitude.

I agree the precedent is terrible, the action seems unjust, and there may be a growing desire to persecute traditional Catholics, but this is such a tiny incident (in terms of people affected) and there are sooo many problems there I’m just unconvinced this was done to crush the TLM.

Who knows, the FSSP may step in – if allowed – and try to support a daily Mass in Fort Worth (but not at
Fisher-More). They might be able to, if not every single day.

If I had a dog in the fight, that’s what I would be asking the bishop to do. To expand the FSSP apostolate to more days of the week. Don’t yell at him, or tell him how terrible and unjust he is, just ask him to deal with the situation he’s created. Fix it, so to speak. It could happen.

7. Notions romaines | Interdiction de la messe traditionnelle au Collège F.-M.: réactions - March 4, 2014

[…] sein de l’institution qui auraient conduits à cette interdiction, notamment relayés par un blogue catholique de la région de Dallas (à 30 minutes de Forth Worth). Nous joignons leur voix pour dénoncer une […]

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